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-   -   High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences? (http://www.avrev.com/forum/preamps-audio-video/3749-high-end-processors-vs-low-end-processors-receivers-hardware-differences.html)

Steve Bruzonsky 07-20-2009 03:36 PM

High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?
 
I was wondering if anyone had some objective data or even and explanation as to why a high end processor would sound better then a low end processor/receiver. I understand that subjective listening plays a role in what people prefer and that some audiophiles look at audio more as a hobby but is there a hardware reason that impacts sound quality? I am not talking about double blind tests and the side that states everything sounds the same but as of yet I have not found any objective data that would justify this night and day difference. I have searched the internet for sometime and found a profile on photobucket that has quite a selection of photo's, yes some people will know the name but it is irrelevant, I will post them below. Mods if you want to change all the IMG pictures back into a text link that is ok.

If you are going to post something along the lines of the high end having a better design or using better parts could you please post some information to clarify those statements.

Thank you.




Theta digital casablanca III

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...tremeclose.jpg

ExtremePremium.jpg
Premium-BB-1796-DAC.jpg
Premiumclose.jpg
Six-Shooter-interior.jpg
Theta-3.gif
Thetaboards.jpg
ThetaCB3.jpg
Volume-control-card.jpg



Arcam FMJ AVR600/FMJ AV888

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...id_off_top.jpg
arcam-avr600-internal-dsp.jpg
arcam-avr600-internal-video.jpg
arcam-avr600-modules.jpg
arcam-avr600-power-amp.jpg
arcam-avr600-powersupply.jpg



B&K reference 70

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/P1010020.jpg
P1010021.jpg



Cary cinema 11a

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...inema_11-2.jpg



Classe SSP-800

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...800MainGut.jpg
SSP800-Board1.jpg
SSP800-Board2.jpg
SSP800-Board3.jpg
SSP800-Transformer.jpg



Krell evolution 707

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...707inside2.jpg
707inside1.jpg



Lexicon MC-12

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...or/smr_101.jpg
smr_41.jpg



Mark Levinson Nș 40

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...udio-proce.jpg
mark-levinson-no-40-ssp-video-proce.jpg



Mcintosh MX135 MX136

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/HPIM0635.jpg
42080587rx4.jpg
HPIM0632.jpg
HPIM0633.jpg
HPIM0634.jpg
HPIM0636.jpg
HPIM0637.jpg
HPIM0640.jpg
HPIM0641.jpg
HPIM0691.jpg
HPIM0710.jpg
mcd500insidetr9.jpg
mcintosh-mda-1000-inside-chassis.jpg

PalmHarbor 07-21-2009 04:27 PM

Re: High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?
 
I have an Emotiva EMC-1 processor. I was about $500. It does everything I want as I am buying outcomes not
a Famous name or cosmetics. There is a the law of diminishing returns when it comes to this kind of thing as
the price doubles or triples compared to most brands...the difference is minimal at best.

Batipepe 07-23-2009 08:06 AM

Re: High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?
 
Hi

A digital processor is a "computer" that sometimes has propietary algorytms to re-construct the analog wave of sound, as our ear cannot hear digital sound.

My expereince began with a Nakamichi MB-2 CD player which I tought to be a goood one. I carried it all the way to my High-End retailer in Mexico City. He kindly connected it to the sistem I was building and purchasing from them. That was for listening to the Thiels 3.6 I was saving for, and to know how my system will sound when I finally ended building it (cables, et. al.).

The sound was DISGUSTING: flat, crispy, no trasients, lack of detail, etc, etc. Very NASTY indeed compared with the same system using a Theta Digital front end that the store for demonstrating me my previous purchases (Audio Research Pre and Amp). I was about to jump from the window: More than $7,000.000 WASTED.

I asked the salesman, Carlos if he tought that connecting a DAC the Nakamichi will sound better: "POR SUPUESTO" (of course), He categorally and firmly answered me. I tought previously that he was trying to "advice me" to purchase an unneded piece of equipment because I thought mi Nakamichi was a fine one. MY MISTAKE. After conecting a Theta Cobalt my soul returned to my body it was all there; DETAIL, body, presence, 3D, more bass, SPACE AMONG MUSICIANS; you could distinguish among violins, you could hear that a corus is actually made out of various vioces -not a single BIG voice.

It was like: Is a Jetta a good car? Could it be, but compared to a PORSCHE...

I do not need to say to you that my credit card flashed and made the purchase in the spot! Later I had to think over how to pid for it (LOL) : )

After a month of going to sleep at 3 AM discovering details in my records that I did not knew were there (have you heard the voices and laugh in Toto's Africa begining? It really scare the $%&$ out of me.) I thought: If this is the entry level DAC how good could it be a more expensive one? So I began to save more green and purchased a REAL Theta Digital. I ended up with two DACs: the Cobalt had better bass that the Pro Basic, the later was more detailed and musical.

Today I own a Theta Generation V an would like to up-grade it to a Generation Vlll, but now that Theta was purchased and remembering the BAD service politics the had even in Neil Synclair's age (previous owner)...

I hope my history will serve you.

Greetings from Mexico where having our hobby is way more difficult and expensive!

graniterocks 07-23-2009 10:55 PM

Re: High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?
 
If you are going to post something along the lines of the high end having a better design or using better parts could you please post some information to clarify those statements.


Hi Steve,

Sorry I can't get to technical for you. I wish I could, but I enjoy listening and comparing by my ear rather then worrying too much about which parts a unit has. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the time to experiment with changing op amps, capacitors, inductors, wiring harnesses, circuit board layout, power supplies, fuses, chassis dampening, mechanical grounding, ground differentials, DACs, software algorythems, etc, etc. But most of, if not all of this stuff is over my head, so I just have fun and try to listen for the differences between various units. If some one tells me this unit has better parts, about all I can say is "cool" and let my ears decide. There is also a lot more to it than just having a few good parts. Just because a volkwagon has a mercedes steering wheel, doesn't mean it's going to drive like a mercedes.

Bottom line is we all know is that all of these processors/receivers sound different. Most of the time the more expensive ones sound better, but it is not always the case. In my experience most of the lesser expensive pre/pros are hard to listen to once you have spent some time with some of the better players out there. But once you get into the 4-7K range, going up to gear that costs more than 10K doesn't always produce results that are that much better. I can't comment on the Theta, (based on reputation I'm sure it's great) but I have owned a few others in that price range and some didn't perform any better than the the 4-7K units. Granted they were a little different, but not enough to justify spending another 3 grand. I have even had a stand alone receiver beat the crap out of some pretty expensive gear.



I would imagine unless you have been involved in desigining or modding gear for the last 5-20 years, it would be very difficult to actually have a real opinion on how different parts sound vs others.

Steve Bruzonsky 07-24-2009 03:55 PM

Re: High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?
 
So people are still sticking with subjective listening, if you want to do that why not start doing blind or double blind tests to see if the differences are still there?

PalmHarbor 07-24-2009 04:19 PM

Re: High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?
 
Well, when it comes to processors one must remember that when they are used primarily with
video...DVD or other digital media...you are focused on the picture and not as much by the audio
as most movies are people talking...talking to one other, two others or more. By in large the
audio is going to be coming out of the center. Now if you are a teen and focus on movies with
car crashes, monsters etc then perhaps the processor becomes more important.


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