High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?

[levoncam]

Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky

So people are still sticking with subjective listening, if you want to do that why not start doing blind or double blind tests to see if the differences are still there?

i have sold high end audio and video for around twenty years. i did one blind test on digiital to analogue converters at the behest of a friend who was "diving in". he quietly swiched cabling on 4 great pieces (matching levels had been done prior with an spl meter) and i could tell EVERY TIME which was which during probably 5-6 passes through. the weirdest was 2 ps audio ultalink II's -one with HDCD and one without- they were as expected tonally identical but spacially very different on HDCD discs. the sonic frontiers was excellent as well but EVERY TIME he connected the THETA GEN V there was magic.
i believe i could have done this on a mid-fi system as well, but with a revealing system like his- krell, krell, top level tara labs and thiel 7.2's...it was easy.

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Originally Posted by levoncam

i have sold high end audio and video for around twenty years. i did one blind test on digiital to analogue converters at the behest of a friend who was "diving in". he quietly swiched cabling on 4 great pieces (matching levels had been done prior with an spl meter) and i could tell EVERY TIME which was which during probably 5-6 passes through. the weirdest was 2 ps audio ultalink II's -one with HDCD and one without- they were as expected tonally identical but spacially very different on HDCD discs. the sonic frontiers was excellent as well but EVERY TIME he connected the THETA GEN V there was magic.
i believe i could have done this on a mid-fi system as well, but with a revealing system like his- krell, krell, top level tara labs and thiel 7.2's...it was easy.

I bet, funny thing is that every DBT that has been published no one could tell the difference. What would make these DAC's sound different from one another?

[levoncam]

Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky

I bet, funny thing is that every DBT that has been published no one could tell the difference. What would make these DAC's sound different from one another?

The two simplest answers are different converter technologies and , perhaps just as important, different analogue components.
Anyone who can't AT LEAST hear a difference through a truly high end rig is wasting their time on this thread.
The differences between HDCD an non HDCD on encoded discs, was obvious in an almost distorted sense of depth. The Theta Gen V was undeniably magical in its ability to impart body, and space to the instruments and the recorded room. I have never heard d/a's in higher price ranges (many exist) but for under 6k retail that bad boy stood ALONE.
On a side mote, we were not Theta Dealers and it ****ed me off that the Gen V was so frickin' good.

Hey man, we level matched and not a word was said by the switcher at any time during my evaluation.

Do you believe that all amplifiers and preamps sound alike?

[PalmHarbor]

Many people have a philosophy of, the more exotic the name and the higher the price, the better the product.
Unfortunately, most are made in China and no one thinks these Chinese made products will be working 15 years
or ten years from now as the Japanese made products do.

[levoncam]

Originally Posted by PalmHarbor

Many people have a philosophy of, the more exotic the name and the higher the price, the better the product.
Unfortunately, most are made in China and no one thinks these Chinese made products will be working 15 years
or ten years from now as the Japanese made products do.

Fifteen years ago I would completely agree. Like Japan did in the early 1960's (when "Made in Japan" meant Junk!) they have improved steadily.
Also I think that the actual parts spec'd out by each manufacturer for assembly in China make quite a bit of difference. There is a reason a Sony XBR 8 that has the exact same panel as a Samsung LED backlit model weighs a third more. Some companies pay more attention to the "unsexy" aspects of their products and warrant them accordingly.

[PalmHarbor]

Originally Posted by levoncam

Fifteen years ago I would completely agree. Like Japan did in the early 1960's (when "Made in Japan" meant Junk!) they have improved steadily.
Also I think that the actual parts spec'd out by each manufacturer for assembly in China make quite a bit of difference. There is a reason a Sony XBR 8 that has the exact same panel as a Samsung LED backlit model weighs a third more. Some companies pay more attention to the "unsexy" aspects of their products and warrant them accordingly.

Well, in these Chinese factories, the workers live on the property in dorms....if they hear that Denon is paying more
down the stree
then they leave for a few yen more. The turnover is very high and their is no concern for quality.

When Sony made televisions in Rancho Bernardo, CA they had high quality and people were willing to pay more
and sony got a premium price. Sony televisions are now in Mexico and the reliability has nose dived.
Same with Mitsubishi ...they had the market in big screen TV as they were made in El Toro, CA next to the former
El Toro Marine Air Station. The televisions were great and reliable. Mitsubishi moved to Mexico and they have lost
market share and actually have a class action suit for product failures for the rear projection televisions.
Americans build products better than any other nation.