High end processors VS low end processors/receivers, hardware differences?

[DaveLadely]

Originally Posted by maadi

I agreed with your statement Specially you talk about sound distraction. High Noise causes extra discharge of energy and effect memory.

I have never heard that high noise causes an "extra discharge of energy and effect [sic] memory". Noise is a form of energy, but it does not cause an extra discharge of energy. In this case, resistor noise was the subject. Resistor noise is caused by the movement of electrons, and using highere wattage capacity resistors is one of the best ways to achieve lower resistor noise, which serves to increase the "hissing" sound. Hiss also results from electrons strking the plates of tubes. Electromagnetic energy may afect memory, but noise is not electromagnet energy. And there is no way that resistor noise has any effect on memory. Such claims in this forum begin to sound like the hokum claims of the power of crystals and such "magical" thinking so prevalent during what was known as the Dark Ages - for good reason. This is also getting too far afield from processors and receivers. And I do think its about time that manufacturers provide sufficient quality procesing of signals that the consumer does not feel obligated to buy processors to get quality results, especially with those very expensive receivers and also preamps.

[stevem]

Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky

Probably? I asked for some kind of proof.



Really? Do you have anything to back up these "statements"?



I guess it must be true since you said it, so much for wanting the best, you do not have HDMI or room correction.

Dude, asking people's opinions on a topic that is inherently subjective (i.e. what sounds good to someone) and then demanding quantifiable proof is specious at best. You are not going to change anyone else's minds concerning what is good for them, so why are you even bothering? I suggest that you find your own answers to your questions rather then being nothing more then argumentative here. Furthermore, your evident spoofing someone else's identity who apparently has some fame in the audio industry for reasons yet disclosed is rather curious.

[maadi]

Originally Posted by DaveLadely

I have never heard that high noise causes an "extra discharge of energy and effect [sic] memory". Noise is a form of energy, but it does not cause an extra discharge of energy. In this case, resistor noise was the subject. Resistor noise is caused by the movement of electrons, and using highere wattage capacity resistors is one of the best ways to achieve lower resistor noise, which serves to increase the "hissing" sound. Hiss also results from electrons strking the plates of tubes. Electromagnetic energy may afect memory, but noise is not electromagnet energy. And there is no way that resistor noise has any effect on memory. Such claims in this forum begin to sound like the hokum claims of the power of crystals and such "magical" thinking so prevalent during what was known as the Dark Ages - for good reason. This is also getting too far afield from processors and receivers. And I do think its about time that manufacturers provide sufficient quality procesing of signals that the consumer does not feel obligated to buy processors to get quality results, especially with those very expensive receivers and also preamps.

Thanks for the information I admired.

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Originally Posted by graniterocks

I'm curious to know why you care?

Here's a quote from the makes of VAC Valve Amplification Company right from their web site.

"It is not sufficient to have the best ingredients; one must also have the best recipe, and a deep understanding of the required result. We do not seek to build an amplifier merely to attain certain specifications; these are the wrong goals, because the human ear and brain do not work in the manner of our test instruments, and the ear values different aspects of performance than can be measured readily. As the wise maxim states, "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing!" Or as we say, in a battle between theory and the real world, the real world always wins."

"VAC started with a passion about breathing realism and life into reproduced music, to making it sound as much like the real thing as possible. Perhaps you are surprised that this is an issue, with so many products available with superlative specifications. Unfortunately, good measurements do not guarantee good sound; in fact, heroic measures to improve a measurement can often degrade the sound you will hear. It is an involved discussion, so for now suffice it to say that test equipment work differently that your ear & brain, which pay attention to different things. We do not yet know how to quantify what you hear. This is why VAC has two criteria for their designs:

They must measure at least reasonably well
They must sound superb"

There are a few other manufactures that feel the same way.

The end decision to buy or not lies with the purchaser. If you can hear a difference and you like that difference, then that is all that matters. Even in medicine placebo reaches up to 40% in some studies. Placebo can have a powerful effect, so even if placebo is the reason that some people feel their is a difference, why knock them. Most of us do this for relaxation and a good distraction from work and life's other stressors.

If you feel that you need a blinded A/B comparison, then do one. If you don't, don't. If you can't hear a difference, don't buy it. If you do and you can afford it, then buy it.

So magic? Then why are these same companies against double blind testing?

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Originally Posted by stevem

Dude, asking people's opinions on a topic that is inherently subjective (i.e. what sounds good to someone) and then demanding quantifiable proof is specious at best. You are not going to change anyone else's minds concerning what is good for them, so why are you even bothering? I suggest that you find your own answers to your questions rather then being nothing more then argumentative here. Furthermore, your evident spoofing someone else's identity who apparently has some fame in the audio industry for reasons yet disclosed is rather curious.

With the high end everything is subjective since they are not interested in what sounds best.

[DaveLadely]

Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky

So magic? Then why are these same companies against double blind testing?

Every company that produces an inferior product is against double blind testing because that is the only way to separate promotion, marketing, power of suggestion, hype, from the person actually being able to compare products without the "filters", on a direct one on one, ears only comparison.
Even then, though, a person's bias can affect choice, but at least its not contaminated by B.S of promoters. Some are biased toward an overall "warm" sound. some prefer an "analytical, cooler" sound. Either amounts to a coloration of the original sound, in imposition of the listener's preference as a sort of tone control, as if the product itself was a musical instrument rather than a device designed to reproduce most realistically.
Too bad its impractical to have the original musicians in the room, then the person could listen to one product, compare that to the real music, then the other product, compare that to the original music, without knowing the brand of either one.
Whichever product sounded most neutral and accurate would hopefully be the chosen one.
Cables lend themselves very well to double blind testing, to the vexation of the manufacturers of very expensive cables and those who judge cables by the sound of their names, their physical beauty, and, above all, the persuasiveness of the marketers and the "true believers" of the advertising hype. And who would be far far better served to put the money wasted into better speakers. But like P.T. Barnum observed, "There is a a fool born every minute".

Whining about test instruments sounds a lot like the days when snake oil sales people complained when they were forced by law to prove their products worked. Anyone who says test instruments are unnecessary to help make choices is likely hiding something, because knowing distortion figures, especially the ones the ears are most sensitive to, is an important way to eliminate the badly designed products before considering those that have low distortion. Manufacturers used to simply lie about distortion and power figures before the advent of accurate measuring devices. The measurements are themselves based on human hearing, and are used to separate the wheat from the chaff. After that comes the audition.
dave