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-   -   Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name. (http://www.avrev.com/forum/preamps-audio-video/1501-lexicon-mc-12-high-end-processors-you-pay-name.html)

Asahikasei 01-26-2008 11:36 AM

Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.
 
People always assume that high end high priced audio will be superior in every aspect to your standard receiver, this can be true when dealing with analog 2CH setups but in home theater it is not. High end companies either do a direct rebadged and sell it for a huge profit or they design their own but as you will see there is nothing high end about it.

Lexicon MC-12.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...mac/smr_41.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...mac/smr_51.jpg

Here we see the Digital I/O Board "top" and Analog I/O Board "bottom" obviously they are in no way superior to how a receiver is built/designed. Obviously there will be no sonic improvements using a DSP/DAC since the high end does not use anything special or better then what is used in today's receivers so the difference would be in the analog section of the product. As you can see there is nothing superior about the analog section of a very expensive Lexicon MC-12.

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Lexi...mr_images.html

Here is where I found the pictures.

Halcro SSP100/200.

The halcro uses the Vinci Labs Titan OEM SSP platform.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973556

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....0&SQ=0&start=0

In these threads we found out that they do infact use the titan platform.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...c/untitled.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...1_rear_577.jpg

As you can see by the back layout the halcro "top" and parasound "bottom" have the same layout and most of it is exactly the same. The halcro also uses the following DSP/DAC, Audio DSP: Motorola DSP56367 Audio DAC: ASAHI KASEI AK4395 The HDMI also has an Audio DSP: Motorola DSP56371.

Mcintosh MX135/136.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...c/HPIM0710.jpg

The DSP system Mac uses.

http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE%2D5

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...c/HPIM0691.jpg

The analog section for one channel.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...c/HPIM0634.jpg

This shows the power supply section of the mac, the two things I did like about the make is the power section and the analog section when compaired to the lexicon.

Asahikasei 01-27-2008 04:23 PM

Re: Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.
 
http://www.smr-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=461&PN=2

This is from a lexicon forum.

Speculation from the previous RV-5 thread seems correct. The specs appear to match the H/K AVR-745.

http://www.lexicon.com/products/specs.asp?ID=26

http://www.harmankardon.com/specific...%20745&sType=C

These are lexicon owners talking about how the RV-5 is a rebadge of a HK.

kennyt 01-27-2008 04:50 PM

Re: Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.
 
First off, similarities in back plates are common, but the two you point two are significantly different. Building an I/O board isn't too tricky, you need connectors and to have them spaced out, so sometimes you will see the same one on different manufacturers gear. These two are somewhat similar, but different enough as to preclude them being the same at all.

Second, Lexicon and HK are in the same parent company, so similarities are not to be unexpected in the fundamental design, the differences frequently come in other areas than the digital cards. Look at all the new receivers decoding the new audio formats, so far only two (one really) chip maker enables them to do this, so are all receivers the same? By your logic they are, and I don't agree with that. Power supplies, analog sections, case design and build, potentiometers, quality of resistors and caps, all add up to differences in sound. Sure, the core chipset is similar. If that was all you needed then go buy a $200 generic Korean POS receiver and discredit all the high end units as junk!

That is not the case however so I think you need to rethink your argument. FWIW the boards you displayed, and those on your links are similar, this doesn't surprise me, but they are also different reflecting how each company has come to deal with them for themselves.

If you think the HK is the same and sounds the same to you as the RV-5, then buy it and leave it be, be happy you didn't spend the extra cash, but I disagree with you that it is 'the same'.

spearl8 01-27-2008 07:14 PM

Re: Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.
 
Asahikasei,
You picked the wrong forum for your argument. Anyone who is a member of this forum is obviously a fan of high end gear. Sorry.

Asahikasei 01-28-2008 02:41 PM

Re: Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.
 
Then prove me wrong, this is the same as all other high end rebadges like the goldmund player.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/gol...ioneer-285743/

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=42879

Asahikasei 01-28-2008 02:45 PM

Re: Lexicon MC-12 and high end processors, you pay for the name.
 
Quote:

First off, similarities in back plates are common, but the two you point two are significantly different. Building an I/O board isn't too tricky, you need connectors and to have them spaced out, so sometimes you will see the same one on different manufacturers gear. These two are somewhat similar, but different enough as to preclude them being the same at all.
There is more to that and if you would read throught the links posted with the pictures you will see that they do use the same titan OEM platform.

Quote:

Power supplies, analog sections, case design and build, potentiometers, quality of resistors and caps, all add up to differences in sound.
The only thing the high end does (mac does this) is use 1% components but this does not make is sound better or worse. Plus the pictures prove the lexicon does not have a better power or pre amp section.

Quote:

If you think the HK is the same and sounds the same to you as the RV-5, then buy it and leave it be, be happy you didn't spend the extra cash, but I disagree with you that it is 'the same'.
How can you say this when the lexicon forum member said they are the same?


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