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Old 04-24-2009   #19
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Default Re: lcd vs. plasma

It seems to me that the LCD vs plasma debate is somewhat like the HDM format debate. There are good points for each technology. But since there is no perfect direct view or rear projection HDTV out there that does not have an answer for every complaint, it boils down somewhat to personal preferences. Glare is a deal breaker for me, for example. Whatever display I use will have to be glare free. I'll sacrifice exaggerated blacks for glare free. What do I mean by exaggerated blacks? To me the blacks on my LCD are closer to theater blacks or front projection blacks, thus any blacks darker than those I consider exaggerated. Not that I don't like them, just I like the no glare of my LCD in my brightly lit room more.

I know there are anti-glare plasma panels out there, but while they are better, they don't match LCDs.
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Old 04-24-2009   #20
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Default Re: lcd vs. plasma

I have had 42" Sony plasma and 42" Sony LCD and they were both pretty good. The plasma was lower quality but it was also 4 years older than my LCD.
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Old 04-24-2009   #21
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Default Re: lcd vs. plasma

I must disagree with those who think newer LCD's are as good as plasmas. On a large screen, plasmas, by far, provide the best quality and overal value for your money. The biggest drawbacks of LCD's remain extremely poor black levels (which means you can't see any detail in darker areas of the screen) and motion blur in action sequences. Despite faster response times and refresh rates, motion blur remains a very serious problem for LCD panels; it is particularly noticeable in sports broadcasts. Locally dimmable LED backlighting may one day improve black levels; but this technology is still new and suffers from its own problems such as haloing effects and other video aberations. Besides LED backlit LCD's cost much more than a comparable sized plasma panel. Why pay much more for an inferior product when for much less you can get a plasma with none of these problems? The so called "drawbacks" of plasmas are greatly exaggerated. Modern plasmas do not suffer from "burn-in" problems, and are bright enough for even the most well-lit rooms. For me there is only one reasonable option with the current state of LCD technology, and that is a plasma.
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Old 04-25-2009   #22
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Default Re: lcd vs. plasma

Just so it is clear it should be said that there are many instances where LCDs will be a better choice than plasmas. Now that's not just an opinion but a reality. When I was in the business, we had several plasmas returned for exchange with LCDs because of the reflection issue. True plasmas of today are better than those of yesteryear, but they still don't match the matte finish LCD for reflections. And while they are certainly bright enough, when the scenes are dark in the 10-20 IRE range, they still reflect.

Applications like waiting rooms, gyms, and many other brightly lit areas, perhaps a den or playroom even, the LCDs are going to be a better choice.

We never had a LCD returned when we were able to convince people to buy them. We have had several plasmas returned to the point that my partner has one of them in his living room. A 50" Panny. An excellent set, btw, in a light controlled environment.

So for a home theater room, I'd would go with either a plasma or a very good front projector and screen. The latter would be my preference. For brightly lit areas I'd tend toward LCD.

As far as motion blur goes, I don't notice it on my LCD screen much any more than what is in the source. I've recorded several events on my HTPC and have checked them frame by frame and guess what? There is motion blur in the frame. That will show up on any TV. For example from When Is HDTV Going to Catch Up? this frame example:



The small size may be difficult to see the motion blur of her fingers on the microphone, if so check this link:
Large Picture
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Old 04-25-2009   #23
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Default Re: lcd vs. plasma

rbink,

You are confused about what the problem is with LCD displays. The type of "motion blur" which plagues LCDs has nothing to do with the motion blur apparent on individual frames which results from movement during the inverval of the individual frame. This type of "motion blur" is not eliminated by plasmas, nor should it be, since it is a desirable phenomenon which mimicks the "motion smear" of the human eye's retina, making movement appear more natural. The type of "motion blur" which plagues LCDs is not apparent at all on individual frames but actually occurs inside the human brain as a result of the hold-type rendering method of LCDs. This was first explained to me some time ago by another member of this forum:

"LCD Motion blur is largely caused by the hold-type rendering method of LCDs together with the motion pursuing function of human visual system. This hold-type motion blur happens not on the LCD screens but in human eyes, so it cannot be captured by a still camera and therefore is physiological. Even if response time is reduced to zero, motion-blur will be observed.
So it appears, LCDs don't suffer from motion blur but the brain does." See: http://www.avrev.com/forum/plasma-lc...tion-blur.html

Since this is a physiological phenomenon, some people are much more sensitive to it than others. Similar to "rainbow effects', etc. some people do not seem to see it at all. I, for one, am extremely sensitive to it; and it is very annoying.

Interestingly, since the type of motion blur that occurs within individual frames actually enhances the appearance of motion sequences it is added to high-end computer animation to make the movement seem more natural:

"In real-time computer animation each frame shows a perfect instant in time (analogous to a camera with an infinitely fast shutter), with zero motion blur. This is why a video game with a frame rate of 25-30 frames per second will seem staggered, while natural motion filmed at the same frame rate appears rather more continuous. Many next generation video games feature motion blur, especially vehicle simulation games. In pre-rendered computer animation, such as CGI movies, realistic motion blur can be drawn because the renderer has more time to draw each frame. Temporal anti-aliasing produces frames as a composite of many instants." For more information about this see: http://www.acm.org/crossroads/xrds3-4/ellen.html

I did not mean to say that LCD displays have no suitable applications; they have many. However, in my opinion, Home Theater is not one of them, given the current state of the technology.
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Old 04-25-2009   #24
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Default Re: lcd vs. plasma

I assure you I am not confused. I know the phenomenon very well and I was not saying LCDs don't have motion blur, or probably more accurate pixel response blur. I was saying I don't notice it on my LCD and the only blur I have noticed is that which I described.

But for others reading I suppose it is a good reference for them if they are curious. But be forewarned, if you get to know too much about a given artifact or fault to the point where it becomes noticeable, you will see it forever. I know several people who had DLPs for several months and never saw the rainbow until they read about the rainbow effect and how to cause it, from then on they saw rainbows from time to time. Not that I don't think learning about artifacts is a bad thing as I have covered them on my blog, just be prepared to ruin a viewing experience should you delve into it too far.

btw I just added this link to that thread: Motion Blur
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