Audio Video Revolution Forum  

Go Back   Audio Video Revolution Forum > Welcome to AVRev.com's Forum > Off-Topic Posts

Off-Topic Posts Want to vent about politics, your annoying neighbor or let people know about something funny you saw on You Tube? Here is the place to do so.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2008   #13
Super Moderator
 
kloneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 161
Default Re: Why do people dislike Firmware updates??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
Well that's one way to look at it I guess.
The deal with the Kenwood is the receiver was released before the iPod Touch was, it would function fine with a regular iPod but the Touch has different software (touch interface is different than previous iPods) the firmware update just made my Kenwood work with something that it wasn't originally designed to work with, that's a good thing!
I don't see that as anyones fault.
That sounds like Apple failing to provide a consistent control Interface to iPod Touch...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
It's the same way with the PS3, while some firmware updates have been to fix bugs most of them have added new functionality that if not for the update would have required buying a newer version of the PS3 to get the same functionality I got for free with a firmware upgrade (think Apple).
The so-called functionality i have seen to date appears to be nothing more than being able to respond to immature standards and fix problems that should have never appeared in production equipment the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
Yes there is always a chance of things getting pushed out too soon because they can be fixed with a firmware upgrade but at least they can be fixed that way.
Reality is that this "chance" is rapidly becoming the standard practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
As for the virus, I worried about that too but since most products use their own OS it shouldn't be a problem, it would take a dedicated attack on that product to give it a virus, now if my receiver used windows there would be a lot more to worry about!
Present a large enough target, and it will draw the malcontents.

Another thing that disturbs me about this mechanism, is that because the non-volatile memory storage technologies are electro-chemical, there are a finite number (though large), of erase/write cycles possible before the device fails outright. The media will become most likely become obsolete before this occurs, but this technology is best suited for prototyping, rather than production and it seems like we are all beta testers.
__________________
- Kloneman --
kloneman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008   #14
Super Member
 
TheMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oklahoma (Go Sooners!!)
Posts: 1,243
Default Re: Why do people dislike Firmware updates??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kloneman View Post
That sounds like Apple failing to provide a consistent control Interface to iPod Touch...
And just how would you suggest Apple keep a consistent control interface when going from a click wheel to a touch screen?







Quote:
Originally Posted by kloneman View Post
The so-called functionality i have seen to date appears to be nothing more than being able to respond to immature standards and fix problems that should have never appeared in production equipment the first place.
I don't know when I Look through all these update notes I'm seeing a lot of added functionality also.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kloneman View Post
Reality is that this "chance" is rapidly becoming the standard practice.
What is a company to do?
Tech is advancing so fast they have to release some products before they are ready, it can cause problems but it it can be patched.
What would you rather do wait an extra 6 months for all of last years tech to be applied to a product or get it now & have next years tech when it's updated?



Quote:
Originally Posted by kloneman View Post
Present a large enough target, and it will draw the malcontents.
No doubt about that but that doesn't apply to just firmware updates but anything with an ethernet connector hooked to a computer.
And the PS3 updates come straight from Sony, a company by the way with the most out of control haters, believe me if some xbox fanboy could have figured out how to infect the PS3 they would have done it by now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kloneman View Post
Another thing that disturbs me about this mechanism, is that because the non-volatile memory storage technologies are electro-chemical, there are a finite number (though large), of erase/write cycles possible before the device fails outright. The media will become most likely become obsolete before this occurs, but this technology is best suited for prototyping, rather than production and it seems like we are all beta testers.
I don't get what your talking about here, were talking about RAM, Flash & Hard drives being re written, that's what they were designed to be able to do isn't it?
TheMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #15
Super Moderator
 
kloneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 161
Default Re: Why do people dislike Firmware updates??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
And just how would you suggest Apple keep a consistent control interface when going from a click wheel to a touch screen?
The touch screen GUI interface you use to interact with the touch is one thing, the digital interface used to remotely control it is another. The electrical interface you use in the car is the same, and the ipod's logical digital interface SHOULD have been the same as its predecessors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
I don't know when I Look through all these update notes I'm seeing a lot of added functionality also.
The PS3 is an immature game console, albeit a very powerful and flexible one, because of the computing and I/O it contains. The sheer number of updates are evidence of its immaturity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
What is a company to do?
Tech is advancing so fast they have to release some products before they are ready, it can cause problems but it it can be patched.
What would you rather do wait an extra 6 months for all of last years tech to be applied to a product or get it now & have next years tech when it's updated?
For A/V equipment, for Automotive equipment, I want it to function immediately upon installation, and require no further maintenance actions. Release the products when they are ready - not before. The amount of "next year's tech in last year's product" is usually limited by the hardware in place. Usually, real "new functionality" requires more/faster hardware. How much of "new functionality" was really immature technology in the first place?? The ability to play file formats that were already in existence at the time the device was created sounds like an example of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
No doubt about that but that doesn't apply to just firmware updates but anything with an ethernet connector hooked to a computer.
And the PS3 updates come straight from Sony, a company by the way with the most out of control haters, believe me if some xbox fanboy could have figured out how to infect the PS3 they would have done it by now!
A "man in the middle attack" between your equipment and Sony can upset the assumed pristine distribution channel, as can infected media, since anyone can create it with the right hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
I don't get what your talking about here, were talking about RAM, Flash & Hard drives being re written, that's what they were designed to be able to do isn't it?
Flash memory cells do not have an infinite number of read/erase/write cycles, nor do the other forms of solid state non-volatile storage. These were originally designed for the read/rewrite cycles needed during design prototyping. Recently, they have replaced even more fragile media - the magnetic floppy, in the "transient storage" function.

Hard disks are a different animal that is eventually going to succumb to mechanical failure, or through component failure of the drive electronics.

The other function that Flash devices are being used in, holding low level machine programming and system configuration information was formerly accomplished using semiconductor programmable read-only memory (PROMs), that had to be replaced to change the programming. Some of the configuration stuff eventually moved to reprogrammable storage technologies.

Some of the reprogrammable technologies actually change the hardware logic through altering the circuit connections (Field Programmable Gate Arrays and devices like them).
These also have a limited number of cycles, because parts of the device are permanently altered by the programming, and those areas must then blocked off electrically during subsequent reprogramming cycles. These devices are designed for modification associated with the design prototyping process, rather than for changing those devices in the field.
__________________
- Kloneman --

Last edited by kloneman; 02-12-2008 at 06:27 AM..
kloneman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #16
Super Member
 
TheMoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oklahoma (Go Sooners!!)
Posts: 1,243
Default Re: Why do people dislike Firmware updates??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kloneman View Post
Flash memory cells do not have an infinite number of read/erase/write cycles, nor do the other forms of solid state non-volatile storage. These were originally designed for the read/rewrite cycles needed during design prototyping. Recently, they have replaced even more fragile media - the magnetic floppy, in the "transient storage" function.
Ya learn something new every day!
TheMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Tags
11, automatic, blueray, dvd, firmare, firmware, lotus, ondemand, play, players, unidisk, update, updates, upgrade, wont

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why does everyone hate firmware updates? TheMoose Discuss AVRev.com News 4 01-30-2008 11:36 AM
Music in surround leaving people wanting more? JerryDelColliano Surround Sound 6 01-16-2008 02:20 AM
I can't believe how cheap some people are re: HD DVD JerryDelColliano HD DVD Software & Hardware 10 12-21-2007 11:41 AM
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer needs firmware updates as well.... kennyt Blu-ray Software 20 10-31-2007 05:37 AM
Firmware updates - Unidisk 1.1 Silver Supra Source Components 1 07-06-2007 07:32 AM




SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1