Audio Video Revolution Forum  

Go Back   Audio Video Revolution Forum > Loudspeakers > Loudspeakers

Loudspeakers No single component in your rig impacts your sound more. Discuss anything and everything about speakers here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2008   #37
Super Member
 
kennyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,422
Default Re: Best Sounding Speakers According to Scientific Tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobstcyr View Post
So what would the "scientific" test look like. Back in the 70's and 80's I took part in several when Floyd Toole was head of the National Research of Canada had an acoustic research department. Floyd is now chairman of Karman international (Harman-Kardon and Infinity). Floyd is one of the most repected researchers in the buisiness. The NRC research was the foundation for the development of speakers at PSB, Energy and Paradigm
OK, first, let's just consider tyhe speaker set up, Lotus says he has people that can swap them out perfectly in minutes, you bring up Harmon, a company I am very close with, they have a massive machine designed to do just this, it cost millions to make, to expect the same accuracy from humans is silly.

The entire test is based on subjective data, so in effect it is a correlation of opinions, which are not scientific.

The Canadian research was based on how people hear, and is valid. Getting any number of people together to pick their favorite speaker is totally subjective, and also totally different from what they did. I see no value in knowing what any group felt were the 'best' speakers, and I suspect no government body or university (as Lotus say's they are backing him) would pay to find this out either.

KT
__________________
Ken Taraszka, MD
Associate Editor
HomeTheaterReview
kennyt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008   #38
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 118
Default Re: Best Sounding Speakers According to Scientific Tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
As for Rooms, our rooms are all identical. We do however have different room sizes.
Huh? How can your rooms be identical if they are different sizes?

As a side note, is there any correlation between your having Martin Logan speakers and Martin Logan speakers doing exceptionally well in the tests?

Last edited by faberryman; 10-25-2008 at 12:15 PM..
faberryman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008   #39
Super Member
 
kennyt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,422
Default Re: Best Sounding Speakers According to Scientific Tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
Huh? How can your rooms be identical if they are different sizes?

As a side note, is there any correlation between your having Martin Logan speakers and Martin Logan speakers doing exceptionally well in the tests?
Finally!

Some one else gets it!
__________________
Ken Taraszka, MD
Associate Editor
HomeTheaterReview
kennyt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 6
Default Re: Best Sounding Speakers According to Scientific Tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt View Post
DC,

Second, I don't believe the study is being done as the cost to perform such an assay of subjectivity is HUGE and their os no reason to do such a 'study' as the data is inherently biased. EVEN if the study is being done, you could easily change any one variable slightly and have completely different results. No speaker maker would fund this as they are all pretty tight, even the big box dealers are feeling the economic crunch.

Third and most important, the 'goal' of the study is irrelevant. There is no 'best' speaker. On a one by one basis, their can be, but to say X speaker is best is total BS. My musical tastes, components, cables, and hearing are different than yours, Lotus', and everyone else in the world. What is best to me may not be any good for you at all and vice versa.

Oh, and to be totally clear, I am not involved with sales of any speakers or audio gear for that matter. I am a reviewer and editor in this business as well as a hard core audiophile, nothing more. I have no financial gains or losses based on these supposed results, nor do I find any significance to them if they actually do come to fruition.

KT
They may or may not be accurate or may or may not have been actually done.

But for some fool (That's you Kenny) to come on here saying that the person posting them is FOS, i.e. a liar, is blatantly rude and you should apologize for your inflammatory ignorant remarks.

That being said a lot of people like the sound of full range planar's and electrostatics.

Not everyone's cup of tea and no one should purchase anything without testing it themselves.

Sure you can purchase Maggie's for around $600.00 but what I have read from other people on forums such as this they are a pain to set up correctly and you have to the right room layout for them. Something I don't have. Nor do I have a spare several thousand to spend on Martin Logan's but they would be my choice if I did.

If the test was done as described the subjects may have been unbiased in their approach unlike most of us who have preconceived ideas of a what a speaker should sound like.

So unless we have proof that it wasn't then give this man his due, but don't abuse him, we are intelligent humans not tree dwellers, thank you.

Remember one of the things our great country is founded on is freedom of speech.

Last edited by Hypnotoady; 10-26-2008 at 11:14 AM..
Hypnotoady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008   #41
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Question Re: Best Sounding Speakers According to Scientific Tests

Hi...

I too don't understand why the guy involved (Lotus) in the testing is being attacked !

As he said, this is a subjective test, but if you carry out that subjective test on thousands of people thousands of times, while it still remains subjective, there is more inferred validity in size of numbers.

From what I understand, the testing isn't attempting or claiming to be objectively definitive, it merely demonstrates what thousands of people preferred under blind-testing.

I do find it curious that the most vocal people on this thread who are attempting to belittle, criticize and defame Lotus and the test in general are involved in the HiFi/HiDef industry. Indeed, they work for magazines and websites which are almost entirely financially dependent on many different manufacturers paying there wages via fee's charged for advertising.

If I was asked to identify a conflict of interests within the posters of this thread it would be those who are indirectly in the pay of various manufacturers, all of whom, without exception, claim to be the best within there given field(s) and budget(s) of HiFi/HiDef products.

When the results are published there is a high chance that many manufacturers may well be negatively effected and lose sales - as a result their companies revenue will decrease and they will have less to spend on advertising in certain magazines and on certain websites, and thus will have less to indirectly pay for the wages of those critics.

Just my cynical 2 cents.

M.

Last edited by loser40; 10-26-2008 at 02:25 PM..
loser40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008   #42
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2
Default Re: Best Sounding Speakers According to Scientific Tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
We got most of our gear from donations, the rest we bought or have on loan (the 7 speakers we have over $10,000 for instance).
I'd not sure how you'd find 7 audiophiles that would loan their $10K+ speakers to such a test. You're telling me that they would remove their pride and joy from the "pet free, smoke free, child free" environment they're always bragging about on Audiogon and take them to some warehouse to be knocked around in a speaker test? Just the scratches on the binding posts would be enough to drive these guys crazy...

John
jzirkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Tags
5000, audio, logan, loudspeakers, maggie, magnepan, martin, mg12, mmg, pair, speakers, time, vantage, versus, vs

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best sounding DVD-Audio discs AVRevForum.com The Best in New Music 58 09-26-2012 02:14 AM
Test your display! Free download benchmark tests. rex Video Processors, Technology & Calibration 0 07-13-2008 08:32 PM
Comcast Tests a New Bandwidth Throttle Ken S Satellite Receivers, DVRs & Cable Boxes 8 06-10-2008 09:03 AM
Poll Of The Week: Best Looking/Sounding HD Primetime show this season AVRevForum.com What's on HDTV? 8 10-05-2007 06:26 PM
What is the best sounding album of 2007? AVRevForum.com The Best in New Music 6 09-03-2007 03:46 PM




SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1