How many DVD consumers purchase HD DVD by mistake?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by akbungle

Just as input I totally disagree with this statement. While I concede that J6P won't notice difference with the equipment they own I don't believe that is any excuse to say they are the same or that all consumers can't hear/enjoy the difference.

I have a "Golden Ear," and can't tell the difference in most scenes. I've been part of numerous blind testing for Dolby. You can't tell the difference for the most part. That means certain scenes: YES you can tell a difference. How many of those scenes are in any given movie 2 or 3?

Sorry Consumers just aren't going to notice that. Audiophiles will barely notice a difference and not in every scene. That means in a real world scenario the arguement doesn't hold up.

[PRO-630HD]

Best HDM audio for 2007, winner? Transformers 1.5 mbps DD+ it won over every single lossless title out there. Need I say more.

In reality hddvd has been slow to come around to lossless audio. In all the advertising I have seen especially by Paramount and Universal the push was for 1.5 mbps DD+ as it was clearly superior to 448 kbps DD from dvd. This obviously with the latest titles is changing. The hddvd side emphasized superior picture quality from fantastic VC1 encodes (bluray.com gave Troy a 4.5 star PQ rating, the video bitrate for VC1 on that title is barely over 11 mbps, yes VC1 is that good.) and a whole new way to view extras with U control and IME. It also trailblazed web enabled features. The earliest Universal titles said "The best in picture, sound and interactivity and they were right." Hence the 1.1 and 2.0 compliant bluray players.

Bluray has never been slammed for audio, but it is a video format so with 18mbps MPEG-2 and no extras it took quite a while to shake the bad reputation. I was amazed at seeing Vertical Limit a full 9 months after launch and Sony still struggling with massive quality control issues. MPEG-2 on a BD-50 and it still looked like crap. Although I have yet to see any MPEG-2 title that blew me away. The best was probably Flyboys. Today they are on the ball and really have been since Casino Royale and AVC encodes. They are releasing 2 disc sets and are realizing high def adapters do not like to scimp on content. With the exception of Fox and MGM of course Lionsgate, Sony and Disney are not leaving off extras from the new or catalog title dvd's. This really was never an issue with Paramount, Universal or Warner.

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by akbungle

Just as input I totally disagree with this statement. While I concede that J6P won't notice difference with the equipment they own I don't believe that is any excuse to say they are the same or that all consumers can't hear/enjoy the difference.

You better have one hell of a system. I own a Pioneer Elite THX receiver and all my speakers are Polk LSi which is their top of the line and I even find the difference questionable factoring out the placebo effect.

I believe that is why SACD and DVD audio failed is few could hear the difference. I have many 5.1 96/24 titles, but question how superior they are to 44.1/16 title. 96Khz is way beyond the level of human hearing as this goes to audible freqeuncies of 40,000 hz.

To me the main advantage was getting a 5.1 mix of the album and many $15 sacd's or dvd audio discs contain 2 albums in one like Seal's Greatest Hits on DVD Audio which is the same as the 2 disc set on CD at a cheaper price.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

You better have one hell of a system. I own a Pioneer Elite THX receiver and all my speakers are Polk LSi which is their top of the line and I even find the difference questionable factoring out the placebo effect.

I have a NAD Master Series Pre-Pro, Bel Canto mono amplification for my front/center, Martin Logan's top of the line fronts and center, ML Fresco rears and Outlaw mono amps for the rears. I have all new Mapleshade cables in my system too. I think it's about $30K worth of stuff.

Even with that I can't tell the difference except in certain scenes and I know what to listen for. If I didn't tell anyone the difference I bet about 50% could tell if I played the scenes back and forth.

It's really not that big of a deal and I'm as Audiophile as they come.

[akbungle]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Best HDM audio for 2007, winner? Transformers 1.5 mbps DD+ it won over every single lossless title out there. Need I say more.

Just think about how much better it would have been in PCM/lossless. Guess we'll just have to wait until the Blu-Ray comes out.

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Although I have yet to see any MPEG-2 title that blew me away.

I believe Ice Age 2 was MPEG2 and that was awesome.

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

You better have one hell of a system. I own a Pioneer Elite THX receiver and all my speakers are Polk LSi which is their top of the line and I even find the difference questionable factoring out the placebo effect.

I do have a very nice system, nothing that touches Kenny's but nice.

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

I believe that is why SACD and DVD audio failed is few could hear the difference.

And their it is! SACD and DVD Audio were huge advancements in sound quality but since J6P thought MP3 was good enough it died. Here we have an opportunity with BD to ALWAYS have PCM/Lossless for those that can hear the difference and DD+ or 1.5 DTS core or dolby Pro-logic surround if you prefer for everyone else. It comes back to space and BANDWIDTH.

And Lotus I'm sorry your "golden ear" is not quite good enough because the difference is there and it is beautiful.

[kennyt]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Even with that I can't tell the difference except in certain scenes and I know what to listen for. If I didn't tell anyone the difference I bet about 50% could tell if I played the scenes back and forth..

Lotus,

I am really surprised to hear you say this!

In my modest bedroom system the difference between DD and uncompressed PCM is HUGE! Now mind you for most of my testing I was using concert Blu-rays, so it was music I was listening to, but even on film I found the difference to be immediately noticeable.