Could Warner Bros. Abandon HD DVD in 2008?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Lotus

And now you're back to implying that Pentonman is Sir Howard Stringer.

No longer is he the first online person to post about it, he's now the first person to know about it again.

You must be reading the forum backwards.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Bob Black

BTW Doby, I find it hilarious that you have the gaul to call anyone a "shill"! You are the biggest shill I've seen on every imaginable HT/tech site on the net, and that's saying something. Just like your infamous "tier" list that shows Disney and Sony with the highest marks for PQ yet refuses to mention the fact that Disney has released virtually NO back-catalog films save for maybe GI Jane and Dinosaur (both of which have very mediocre PQ), and Fox and Sony haven't released many more themselves. Universal has pumped out over 40 titles fom the 70's, 80's and 90's, but somehow you lost this data. In fact, when I checked this data a couple of months ago, Universal had released MORE catalog titles from this era than Sony, Disney, FOX, and LionsGate COMBINED!

Sorry but a shill is somebody who gets paid - all that's going to happen to me is that I get fired for not doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

As for the reviews, I just tally the numbers - I don't "lose" any data at all. Every title with a score from the five major review sites that I track is there.

If you're referring to the studio tally here:

HDD 279HD/303BD, HTS 251HD/270BD, HTF 104HD/107BD, UD 150HD/133BD, Talk 306HD/322BD
10.31.07
PQ SQ Total Studio
4.18 4.36 4.27 Buena Vista
3.99 4.16 4.08 Sony
3.81 4.08 3.95 Fox
4.01 3.84 3.93 Paramount
3.96 3.66 3.81 Warner
3.63 3.80 3.72 Lions Gate
3.80 3.63 3.71 Weinstein
3.71 3.63 3.67 Universal

(Apologies if the code doesn't come out right on this forum)

You'll notice that Warner has FAR more catalogue titles out than Universal of 1970's and older movies, yet they've managed to have a 0.25 higher PQ than Universal. I'm also pretty sure that Weinstein's releases are ALL day and date titles yet they can't even match the quality of catalogue and cartoon-releasing Lions Gate. This is over 1,000 reviews on each format tallied.

As for your data, why don't you post some of it. You say more catalogue titles from the 70's, 80's and 90's from Universal than Sony, Fox, Disney and LGF combined is that right? How many more titles from 90's and older has Universal released than Warner?

Oh, but I guess you probably don't want to look at it from both angles do you?

Loss of data? Please do explain. I'd be happy to list all the titles by site and you tell me if I've "lost" any of them, m'kay? I would even e-mail you the spreadsheet so you can take a look yourself.

In fact, the 1.0 review of Robocop [Blu-ray] that never saw the light of day is on the spreadsheet, that review coming from DVD Talk. So no, I don't see how any data is "lost"

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JerryDelColliano

Doby and Lotus are pretty fired up about their "inside sources". I have a few inside sources myself and I don't see the format war ending at CES like some have suggested.

I do not agree that the war will end at CES either, but I do believe that by Summer 2008 Warner will be releasing on one format and if it's Blu-ray that the retailers will be quick to remove HD DVD from their shelves.

When something like that happens at Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Circuit City, etc., it will hasten the end of the war very quickly.

If Warner chooses HD DVD and drops Blu-ray, it will throw a massive wrench into the format war ever ending as which format will the retailers choose? You know they have a LOT of pull in this thing should they make a move to only stock one format or the other, but with major studio's split 50/50 a niche market is guaranteed and I believe you would see the HDM sections disappearing from view and perhaps altogether at smaller stores.

If Warner picked HD DVD and Disney went neutral, I believe Fox would not be far behind and then the retailers would remove Blu-ray from their stores, forcing Sony to support HD DVD as well, which if anyone thinks they would not do (I've seen so many posts incorrectly stating that it would be a cold day in hell before Sony supports HD DVD or Universal supporting BLu-ray - they WILL go where the winning format goes) is sorely fooling themselves.

[Bob Black]

Originally Posted by JerryDelColliano

Welcome to the forum Bob.

Doby and Lotus are pretty fired up about their "inside sources". I have a few inside sources myself and I don't see the format war ending at CES like some have suggested.

Thanks for the welcome!

I agree with your interpretations. It makes no sense whatsoever for WB to abandon HD DVD, especially now! Look at their history -- they claimed earlier in the year that they'd be bringing out all their HD DVD-exclusive titles on Blu-Ray but where are they? T3 and Polar Express are the only 2 I've seen, and they had a debacle with Terminator 3 and Blu-Ray's PiP functionality. Not to mention the Harry Potter screw-up and the problems with Blade Runner on BD -- seems to be an issue with Blu-Ray support of late. Meanwhile, one of their best-selling titles, Batman Begins, remains HD DVD exclusive along with several others. Where's Poseidon, Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, Casablanca?

Why would they be conducting all these recent BOGO's for HD DVD including the Harry Potter films? They are obviously giving HD DVD an advantage for some reason. If they were simply looking to "dump" HD titles, why would they include their crown jewel franchise, Harry Potter? They would have simply produced fewer discs on the format if they had intentions of dropping support for HD DVD. Now that their latest blockbuster sells virtually even on both formats, where is the incentive to go BD exclusive? Seems more likely they're giving themselves ammunition to go the other way if they make any kind of move at all.

[JerryDelColliano]

I said this before the launch:

- Blu-ray had some technical advantages. Screw the expense of making the discs. That all works itself out.
- HD DVD has the NAME. EVERYONE on the PLANET Earth knows what "HD" is and they also know what "DVD" is. HD DVD is the logical next step.

Since the two sides decided to have another Beta vs. VHS battle - fueled by old wounds from 20 years ago - consumers have suffered.

If the HDCP issue was solved from the start - there would be 10,000,000 MORE players sold.

The studios NEED to lean on Gary Shapiro and others to make this copy protection actually work. Apple shouldn't be the ONLY company that has ONE CABLE connectivity

[Bob Black]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

You'll notice that Warner has FAR more catalogue titles out than Universal of 1970's and older movies, yet they've managed to have a 0.25 higher PQ than Universal. I'm also pretty sure that Weinstein's releases are ALL day and date titles yet they can't even match the quality of catalogue and cartoon-releasing Lions Gate. This is over 1,000 reviews on each format tallied.

As for your data, why don't you post some of it. You say more catalogue titles from the 70's, 80's and 90's from Universal than Sony, Fox, Disney and LGF combined is that right? How many more titles from 90's and older has Universal released than Warner?

Universal has released the following: The Sting (1973), The Jerk (1980), Monty Python's The Meaning Of Life (1983), The River (1984), Streets Of Fire (1984), The Last Starfighter (1985), Midnight Run (1988), Born On the 4th Of July (1989), Sea Of Love (1989), Scent Of A Woman (1990), Darkman (1990), Sneakers (1992), American Me (1992), Carlito's Way (1993), The War (1994), What Dreams May Come (1994), The Getaway (1994), Mallrats (1995), Billy Madison (1995), The Frighteners (1996), Dragonheart (1996), Daylight (1996), The Nutty Professor (1996), Dante's Peak (1997), The Game (1997), Liar Liar (1997), Patch Adams (1998), Mercury Rising (1998), Half-Baked (1998), The Big Lebowski (1998), Meet Joe Black (1998), Elizabeth (1998), Mystery Men (1999), The Watcher (1999), Being John Malkovich (1999), Bulletprrof (1999), Notting Hill (1999)

This was up-to-date as of a couple of months ago when I compiled this data. At that time, Universal's releases included 37 releases between 2000 and the present, and 37 releases that are from the 70's, 80's and 90's. As you might suspect, the average rating in PQ was considerably higher for recent films, with a 3.824 average for 2000 - 2007 films.

Contrast this with Disney that had two older catalog titles that I counted (Dinosaur and GI Jane - both from the 90's) and FOX which had 10 (Courage Under Fire, Rocky, Speed, Usual Suspects, Entrapment, Broken Arrow, Chain Reaction, Hoosiers, Robocop (remastered), Edward Scissorhands. Sony also had very few, but I have to go right now and can't post all the data. I will finish later.

Suffice it to say, however, that anyone looking at the PQ rankings with an unbiased eye can see that the BD studios have benefited greatly in your tier list due to their lack of older releases. Sony is so 2006/2007-heavy on titles that it isn't even funny!