Could Warner Bros. Abandon HD DVD in 2008?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by kennyt

Pro-630HD,

I for one could care less what S&V 'certifies' or 'recommends'.

I do own an XA2, and it's a great machine, but like Jerry says, it still isn't as slick as any SD DVD player out there. I fear we are still several generations, and maybe more than less as all companies on both sides of this 'war' are releasing players faster than even a source geek like me can keep up with!

I wish they'd just make a really good player with acceptable functionality in one or better yet both formats ASAP so we can stop with the prolonged load times (Surf's Up took almost three minutes on one of my Blu-ray players...)

Load times...

Firmware updates...

Ever changing standards...

At least HD DVD only has 2 out of the 3 major problems with the NextGen players.

That isn't saying much either. Both have their problems.

[DaViD Boulet]

Yes it was true. The arguement about was it good for us or not is not really a part of the aforementioned discussion. It was just that Sony and Phillips were behind something the others were not. They did get their disc in and honestly the rest of the DVD forum approved it because it was actually better. David implied that history was different. Whether or not a DL disc was better than the 5GB disc is a red herring.

It was FUD by omission and a misleading conclusion. 630's post implied that Sony's proposal *reduced* the data that could be stored from 5 gigs to 4.7 gigs by adding a second layer.

Actually, Sony's proposal nearly DOUBLED the amount of data that could be read from one side of a DVD disc from 5 to 8 gigs. Comparing single-layer limits to single-layer limits of the two formats is meaningless: it only makes sense to compare the maximum of continuous data-read each format provides. Double-sided has no bearing because flipping a disc requires program material/playback to competely stop... and the disc to be flipped manually or by a mechanized system, which makes it no different in practice than using two separate discs (and not that much different in cost either).

I don't see how you can defend his "spin" that Sony's proposal for 4.7/8 single/double-layer continuous-play 8GB dual-layer DVD was somehow a compromise from Toshiba's original plan for consinuous-play single-layer 5GB.

It's one thing to spin facts that are relatively neutral, or flexible enough to be massaged. It's another to seriously suggest to any intelligent person that Toshiba's single-layer 5GB disc was superior to Sony's 4.7/8 single/double-layer structure.

Since flipping interrupts continuous play (and requires user-intervention), it's actually less convenient than using two separate discs if more than 8GB is required for content. Hence why we rarely see dual-layer/dual-side 16GB discs in use.

In defense of 630, are you *actually suggesting* that the DVD format, and consumers who use it, would have been better served with a structure limited to 5GB of continious read-time versus the 8GB we enjoy?!?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

It was FUD by omission and a misleading conclusion. 630's post implied that Sony's proposal *reduced* the data that could be stored from 5 gigs to 4.7 gigs by adding a second layer.

Ok David lets explain it real simple:

The Sony discs were better against defects and thus accepted. The Toshiba discs had more space and yes were designed for dual layers as well.

So your whole arguement is stupid and pointless. All you've done is blame someone for FUD when the whole point of his statement was about something else entirely. You've spun the conversation to a Pro-Sony point that you thought you had correct data on.

Unfortunately you're wrong.

The DVD Forum made the right choice both times for consumers.

The DVD Forum seems to always choose what is best for consumer's wallets.

With recent HD DVD authoring tools among other things, it's just getting less and less expensive to make HD DVDs in comparison to BD. The Forum made an educated decision.

You obviously don't have the data they had to make a decision.

[kennyt]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

My point is I have had it since Jan. and due to FW upgrades it does 1080p/24 and HBR audio to HDMI 1.3a receivers. Load up time for Transformers is 33 seconds. 55 seconds if the machine is turned off. Not too slow in reality. No they are not instantaneous like dvd players but I highly doubt they ever will be. With the extra processing you can access menu features while the movie plays. DVD players stop you cold interupt the film and go to the main menu.

I think you are missing the point. The main determinant of success of any long loved format (CD/DVD/iPod) has always been increased convenience.

Waiting for a minute or more, even the better part of one, is a decrease in convenience.....

[Dave Moritz]

"You do realize the Toshiba XA2 is the only stand alone HDM player to be Sound And Vision Certified and Recommended this year. 1080/24P, bitstreaming or internal decoding of all advanced codecs to include DTS-HD MA, Reon HQV processing, 2ndary audio and video encoders for PIP, ethernet port for web features and firmware downloads, built in memory. The Onkyo and Integra clones would be the same. Show me 1 bluray player that even comes close to these features. The new Panasonic is the closest you have and it won't even decode DD+, True HD or DTS-HD internally, no ethernet port either."

Pro-630HD I love the picture and the sound is very good as well from the HD-DVD player. But I honestly do not care about web features so that point means nothing to me. And I also have no interest in picture in picture features ether. I only care about audio/video performance as it relates to getting a top notch presentation of a motion picture in my home. I believe the upcoming Denon Blu-ray has the Reon HQV processing in it as well. And to my knowledge the Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD is more than a match for the Toshiba HD-XA2. Part of the reason for not wanting the XA2 is it looks like a cheap low profile DVD player. Granted it puts out clean 1080p video but the face plate looks cheap. I have been upgrading my HT to higher quality peices and the HD-DVD players have a cheap look to them. And I hate the low profile players, I do not trust players that are in a slim profile like that. They put small cheap power supplies in the and I do not care for the flimsy disc roms that are used. To me the Toshiba's look like they belong in a budget home theater in a box system more than a serious dedicated HT. If no classy higher end HD-DVD player become available by 2009 I may upgrade my HD-A1 to the best model that is out at the time. As long as it can bitstream DT-HD and DTS-HD MA thats all I care about since it will automatically be a 1080p player. I have alot of upgrading to do and I have to save up for every upgrade. I just can not picture a thin, flimsy, cheap looking second or third gen HD-DVD player mixed in with a Denon AVR-3808ci and a Denon DVD-2500BT. I would like a nicer looking player that is built a little better that also uses better parts.

Current HT components being upgraded
Yamaha RX-V995 5.1 Receiver -----> Denon AVR-3808ci 7.1 Receiver
Sony BDP-S300 -------------------> Denon DVD-2500BT Bluray Transport
Toshiba HD-A1 --------------------> ????
Sony KDF-F50A10 50" HDTV -------> Sony, Mitsubishi or Samsung 1080p 60" HDTV

"You need to research your topics better before posting. http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgen...naio_2678.html
Onkyo DV-HD805 returns in January"

Pro-630HD the last thing I heard was that Onkyo was not coming out with there player so if things have changed then I am sorry. I do not have all day to sit around and try to turn up every bit of information. I am not trying to be smart but if I was wrong about the Onkyo not coming out then it was a mistake and people make them. And I would not consider Onkyo being high end ether as I would not touch Onkyo anymore. I have have owned Onkyo Integra in the past when IMHO it was alot better than it is now!

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by kennyt

I think you are missing the point. The main determinant of success of any long loved format (CD/DVD/iPod) has always been increased convenience.

Waiting for a minute or more, even the better part of one, is a decrease in convenience.....

So I guess the A35 is an improvement?

The XA2 is a "high end," piece (if ugly like Dave Mortiz claims) and provides excellent quality and is aimed at the consumer who will wait that minute.

The problem is these are all computers now... and computers as we all know are finicky and time consuming.