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AVRevForum.com 10-11-2007 05:25 PM

The CEA Nixes 1080p Video Through Analog Component Cables
 
Despite screams of disgust from early adopting consumers and audio-video installers over horrible connectivity problems via the copy-protected HDMI digital cables, the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA), the lobby group for the audio-video industry, recently refused to allow a standard that would allow 1080p video to flow through a standard analog component video cable. Analog component cables do not have the HDCP digital copy protection that Hollywood studios demand to protect their highest resolution video output. HDMI digital cables in their current 1.3b version theoretically carry both 1080p video and the highest resolution multi-channel surround sound, bitstream formats such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD. However, they are plagued with horrible connectivity issues due mostly to the HDCP copy protection that the studios have forced into the specification.

HD DVD and Blu-ray players will output the lower resolution 1080i video via analog component video cables, which have become the choice among frustrated consumers and custom installers who see HDMI systems struggle with predictably making a “handshake” between copy protected players (Blu-ray and HD DVD) and 1080p native HDTVs. These consumers are willing to sacrifice the last level of performance between 1080i and 1080p video for a player that consistently sends video to their HDTVs.

Electronics manufacturers are equally frustrated with HDMI and its HDCP connectivity. Non-copy-protected components such as DVRs and HDMI DVD players connect via the one-cable solution of HDMI perfectly. Copy protected players, including nearly every current HD DVD and Blu-ray are more hit and miss, especially depending on what HDTV you use with your HD disc player. While second generation HD disc players and the newest HDTVs are definitely better about making an HDCP “handshake”, manufacturers complain about a lack of access to specifications that would make a simple connection actually work every time.

In the end, Hollywood studios clearly have the ear of the CEA, thus the consumer is forced to deal with the less-than-perfect world of HDMI, thanks to the HDCP connectivity, or downgrade their video to 1080i and use component cables, a solution that works every time. The CEA should be publicly putting tremendous pressure to get the HDMI specification and copy protection to a level where one-cable-connectivity passes the best in HD video and high-resolution audio. With mainstream consumers lining up to buy flat HDTVs by the millions per month, wouldn’t it be nice to sell them a new player than can actually feed their 1080p HDTVs actual 1080p video, because as of today, both digital cable and satellite can not provide consumers with 1080p.

by: Jerry Del Colliano

Sources:
- CEPro.com, CE.org

TheMoose 10-11-2007 06:29 PM

Re: The CEA Nixes 1080p Video Through Analog Component Cables
 
This is no big surprise, I was never expecting to get 1080p through Component, frankly I'm surprised that they allow 1080i!

DaViD Boulet 10-11-2007 07:35 PM

Re: The CEA Nixes 1080p Video Through Analog Component Cables
 
"sensationalizing" articles like this are misleading. Most people have no problems with HDMI video signals. And going digital is *THE* way to get the best image quality possible.

If anything, groups having difficulty with HDMI working properly should:

1. complain to the manufacturers who didn't get the HDMI thing right in the equipment they bought.

2. lobby for a better/less problematic copy-protection scheme but one that maintains signal integrity in an HDMI carrier.


The same "high end installation/home-theater" crowd complained when DVD replaced laserdisc. It's ok to move forward, though it does sometimes involved gear becoming obsolete.

PeterM 10-11-2007 11:19 PM

Re: The CEA Nixes 1080p Video Through Analog Component Cables
 
There is a difference between obsolete and unusable.

When I bought my Runco 980 CRT projector, it was a $20K purchase.

I want to be able to keep feeding it as long as possible. Supporting a analog video signal is important to me. Ideally, that would be an RGB signal, but I can tolerate a component video signal.

thetaxi317 10-12-2007 04:14 AM

Re: The CEA Nixes 1080p Video Through Analog Component Cables
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet (Post 4350)
"sensationalizing" articles like this are misleading. Most people have no problems with HDMI video signals. And going digital is *THE* way to get the best image quality possible.

If anything, groups having difficulty with HDMI working properly should:

1. complain to the manufacturers who didn't get the HDMI thing right in the equipment they bought.

2. lobby for a better/less problematic copy-protection scheme but one that maintains signal integrity in an HDMI carrier.


The same "high end installation/home-theater" crowd complained when DVD replaced laserdisc. It's ok to move forward, though it does sometimes involved gear becoming obsolete.

I don't see any part of Jerry's article that questions going digital...I think the main point of his article is that, "The CEA should be publicly putting tremendous pressure to get the HDMI specification and copy protection to a level where one-cable-connectivity passes the best in HD video and high-resolution audio." I agree with his statement and think it would be great if AVREV would be the "public voice" that covinces the CEA to lead such a campaign.

I also don't agree that this article is "sensationalizing" the issue. The issue of poor handshaking is widely known, and since I've got a fine 1080i setup already, it was one of the key drivers that kept me out of market for any of the first generation 1080p equipment. What I DO find sentationalizing is your statement that, "Most people have no problems with HDMI video signals." So you've surveyed 51% of all HDMI equipment users/owners in the world?

DaViD Boulet 10-12-2007 05:25 AM

Re: The CEA Nixes 1080p Video Through Analog Component Cables
 
Quote:

I don't see any part of Jerry's article that questions going digital...I think the main point of his article is that, "The CEA should be publicly putting tremendous pressure to get the HDMI specification and copy protection to a level where one-cable-connectivity passes the best in HD video and high-resolution audio."
If that implies maintaining the use of (superior) HDMI connectivity but working hard to make it work reliably and consistently, naturally we all are in agreement (but that scentence doesn't negate the rest of his article where he proposes 1080p over analog as the solution).

Also, 1080p over component is already technically possible... just not approved. If you have a 1080p CRT Runco projection system that is inherently analog, naturally you gain no benefit from digital video transmission. There are devices available to deliver 1080p over analog to a 9" CRT projector... just not "scantioned". ;)

However, 9" CRT projectors do not constitute the majority of 1080p capable systems in operation today (most panel-based 1080p HD systems are HDMI enabled).

Quote:

I also don't agree that this article is "sensationalizing" the issue. The issue of poor handshaking is widely known, and since I've got a fine 1080i setup already, it was one of the key drivers that kept me out of market for any of the first generation 1080p equipment. What I DO find sentationalizing is your statement that, "Most people have no problems with HDMI video signals." So you've surveyed 51% of all HDMI equipment users/owners in the world?
Have 49% of the purchasers of 1080p HDTV sets returned them because they didn't work? Everyone running an upconverting DVD player, Blu-ray, or HD DVD player is running HDMI (ignoring the HD DVD add-on for the 360) and on all forums I've visited I've never heard of any serious problems with HDMI compatibility beyond the usual timing issues of device versus display resolution settings etc. (and the occaional problem trying to run 1080p through the HDMI switching of a receiver only designed for 1080i).

Since you only have a 1080i set, how is this discussion relevent to your situation anyway? Run component at 1080i and enjoy.

Quote:

There is a difference between obsolete and unusable.

When I bought my Runco 980 CRT projector, it was a $20K purchase.

I want to be able to keep feeding it as long as possible. Supporting a analog video signal is important to me. Ideally, that would be an RGB signal, but I can tolerate a component video signal.
Agreed. Esoteric (but excellent) gear like yours gets isolated in a digital-protocol world. There are devices that will supply you with your signal, just not with a Sony label. ;)


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