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Old 02-22-2008   #13
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Default Re: Blu-ray Wins! But The Real Format War Has Only Just Begun

GoldEar,

I am a BIG supporter of video calibration but you aren't suggesting that a calibration would make a DVD look better than a Blu-ray on an HDTV are you? That's a little bit of a leap.

For $300 each - someone who cares should have a Blu-ray player AND a professional calibration. Why buy the Ferrari complete with a tune-up but then pump 87 octane gas in tank? It just doesn't make sense.

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Old 02-22-2008   #14
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Default Re: Blu-ray Wins! But The Real Format War Has Only Just Begun

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Originally Posted by JerryDelColliano View Post
GoldEar,

I am a BIG supporter of video calibration but you aren't suggesting that a calibration would make a DVD look better than a Blu-ray on an HDTV are you? That's a little bit of a leap.

For $300 each - someone who cares should have a Blu-ray player AND a professional calibration. Why buy the Ferrari complete with a tune-up but then pump 87 octane gas in tank? It just doesn't make sense.

j
Sorry Jerry, but that isn't nearly what I am suggesting. I'm responding to a poster who said that most people who buy a new TV will want to get the most out of their TVs and thus will buy a BD player. My reply is that if most people wanted to get the most out of their TV, the first thing they would do is set it up properly...but most people don't even do that. Heck, you don't even need a professional calibration, but at least get it out of Torch mode.
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Old 02-22-2008   #15
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Default Re: Blu-ray Wins! But The Real Format War Has Only Just Begun

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Originally Posted by goldear View Post
I'm sorry to say, but I have had a completely different experience than this. If "most" people wanted the most out of their new TVs, the first thing they would do is get it properly calibrated. Yet, several friends and members of my own extended family don't even bother to set the user settings correctly...thinking torch mode gives them the best picture.

The idea that J6P, who just barrowed heavily to invest in his new microdisplay, is now going to just drop another $400 plus on his way out the door on a BP player isn't logical...especially if Mrs. J6P has anything to say about it. And as was already pointed out, most J6Ps who invested in 720/1080i displays aren't just going to unload these for the newer displays when the former was already a luxury investment that is probably still being paid off.

Heck, I have two Bro-in-Laws who have moved into the HT arena because of my interests in it (and of course, the way my system sounds when they come over). While each of them has bought into relatively modest sound systems, they both have gone hog-wild on the displays. The lawyer picked up 3 in one day for his house, while the other has gradually added more throughout his house.

Sadly, while I was able to drag one into the HDM fold about a year ago (he chose HD-DVD)...even setting him up with a great deal, the other was just fine with his upconverting DVD player. In fact, when I checked with the former a few months back to see how his HD collection was coming along, he said he still only had the 2 HD-DVDs I gave him because he wasn't going to pay $25-$30 for a movie when he can get it at half that on DVD. According to him, his X2 does a good enough job converting SD-DVDs.

I've always been a collector of movies--from VHS to LD to DVD and HD-DVD. But even here, my J6P friends give me grief about the size of my SD-DVD collection (that is until they want to barrow a movie). I've found out that as a movie-buff and even as just a SD-DVD collector over the years that I am in the minority (niche) among most the people I know; most of these people are fine just renting their movies. My only hope is that BD can still survive as a niche if that is what it has to do.
I hear you, and your are right new sets should be calibrated to get the best picture possible, but calibrated or not there is a significant difference (in most cases) in picture quality from sd dvd up-convered to bd or hd dvd. It is easy to see the difference even from your so called non video phile. I would guess bd will be much more than a niche in two years, I think we will all have a good idea of where it will be going by years end.
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Old 02-22-2008   #16
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Default Re: Blu-ray Wins! But The Real Format War Has Only Just Begun

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldear View Post
I'm sorry to say, but I have had a completely different experience than this. If "most" people wanted the most out of their new TVs, the first thing they would do is get it properly calibrated. Yet, several friends and members of my own extended family don't even bother to set the user settings correctly...thinking torch mode gives them the best picture.
[big snip]
I've found out that as a movie-buff and even as just a SD-DVD collector over the years that I am in the minority (niche) among most the people I know; most of these people are fine just renting their movies. My only hope is that BD can still survive as a niche if that is what it has to do.
This simply is more affirmation of what I have been saying in other posts: Movie buffs who want to view 1080p content are a small minority.

Joe and Susie Sixpack are where the real money is, and this is who the studios will be targeting. Joe & Susie will be in video heaven with Apple TV downloads, and on their $1,199 42" LCD screens, they will never see the difference between a 1080p Blu Ray and a 720p Apple TV download.

And with a $350 HTIB sound system, who can hear any difference in the audio?

Yes, this is a forum for hi-rez movies buffs, but you need to accept the fact Joe and Susie Sixpack drive the market and ultimately determine the quality that is made available to the mass market.
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Old 02-23-2008   #17
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Default Re: Blu-ray Wins! But The Real Format War Has Only Just Begun

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Originally Posted by Vinyl Rules! View Post

Yes, this is a forum for hi-rez movies buffs, but you need to accept the fact Joe and Susie Sixpack drive the market and ultimately determine the quality that is made available to the mass market.
@Vinyl Rules! -
I concur, VR. This is what I mean by the march to mediocrity. We have seen an analogy as I mentioned earlier with how MP3's have degraded sound quality for other music delivery formats. Now, CD's are mastered with extreme dynamic compression b/c short sited artists (yes, artists are also responsible for this!) and record label execs expect that people will listen to lossy compressed audio on cheap earbuds. No, not everyone does, but the commercial impulse is towards the lowest common denominator.

I wonder how long it will be before we see something similar with video downloads, where all video transfers are mastered to overcome the inherent limitations of extreme data compression?

There is a ray of light however, and it is Blu. People have at least shown that they do care more about video than audio. You've seen it - that 60" LCD going out the door, sitting on top of the HTIB. I hold out some hope that this will result in higher quality optical HD media finding some important slice of the market. It won't be overwhelming b/c of the arguments set forth previously, but it will be important, if we are lucky and LOUD.

There is hope - people are used getting accustomed to a paralyzing overabundance of choice as all markets become fractionalized. As a society, we divide our media consumption time already between internet, movies, gaming, music, books. The days when any one monolith can dominate in many human endeavors are becoming rarer and rarer. People may make room for Blu-Ray and downloads over time, as well as DVD's.

Sony was prescient in that regard - some people just wanted a PlayStation, and they ended up with a device that actually converges many of the ways in which people consume media now: movies, downloadable content, music, etc. Many folks hate them, but you have to give some grudging respect - not only did the PS3 serve as a "stealth" weapon in the HD disc wars, but as the PlayStation Network starts to offer downloadable movies in the future, perhaps even music, it starts to look more and more like Sony execs have seen the 10 year future and conceptualized a device that embraces the reality of fractionalization. It may be the first, truly successful "convergence" device.

Geez, how did I end up so far off topic? Boring and pompous. Sorry!
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Old 02-25-2008   #18
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Exclamation Studios Are Trying to Stop DVDs From Fading to Black

From The New York Times, Monday February 25, 2008:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/bu...dia/25dvd.html

Partial quote: "But the victory of Sony’s new Blu-ray high-definition disc over a rival format, Toshiba’s HD DVD, masks a problem facing the studios: the overall decline of the DVD market. Domestic DVD sales fell 3.2 percent last year to $15.9 billion, according to Adams Media Research, the first annual drop in the medium’s history. Adams projects another decline in 2008, to $15.4 billion, and a similar dip for 2009.

So instead of celebrating the Blu-ray format — which remains a nascent business — the studios are scrambling to introduce an array of initiatives aimed at propping up the broader market. Some efforts, like the addition of new interactive features and changes in how DVDs are packaged and promoted, are intended to prevent further market erosion while nurturing Blu-ray. "
________________________________________ ________________________________________ ________________________________

Don't these people realize that the economy is faltering and most people do not have discretionary income for this kind of purchase? People are losing their homes!
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