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Old 02-21-2008   #385
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Angry Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyl Rules! View Post
Moose, Moose, Moose,

You are just a mere troll, and not even a good one

First, you write, "I'm sorry but in what kind of "geek infested" site does 67.7% of the poll respondents either not need HD or not even know what it is??" This is simply a troll because these geeks do not reflect your own personal belief structure. You have attacked them for their beliefs (their response to the poll). You are obviously distraught they do not agree with you.

Next, you write, "That sounds to me like a bunch of die hard hd-dvd fanboys tilting a poll." This is just another troll attempt by you. Please tell me, Moose: How is the 10.3% "die hard hd-dvd fanboys number "tilting a poll" when it is lower than the 13.2% Blue Ray number? See, I was right on target with my two-digit IQ comment. Oh, and your first sentence in red, in your first comment above, is grammatically incorrect and not a complete sentence.

Finally, you wrote, "That sounds more like the response you get from polling a nursing home not a geek site!!" Now you're dissin' senior citizens and lumping them in with geeks. Care to explain to us why this is NOT a troll?

As for your comment about A/V geeks vs. Computer geeks, well, there are at least one thousand (1,000) real computer geeks for every one (1) wanna-be A/V geek. If you want to argue this point, just do some googling on home penetration of computers vs. home penetration of A/V receivers and/or A/V electronic separates.

A/V geeks are an insignificant economic market when compared to the computer market and this ratio is not going to change, ever. Downloads are the future and the silver disc is in its twilight and the content providers don't care as long as they get paid.

Now go crawl back under your bridge and please don't bother me any more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
While I agree that Vinyl's response was totally uncalled for to the majority of users here, it is what Moose asked for. You just don't attack data, old people, etc. and not expect a response.

Rather than seriousl discussing the data provided by Vinyl he attacked it.

Polls by NPD state that most HDTV owners have no plans of ever investing in BD or HD-DVD.

Vinyl quotes a poll of "computer geeks," who also share the same attitude but at a smaller percentage. Still the majority had no plans.

DVD appears "good enough," for a lot of people. This is a far more serious problem than overcoming a "format war," for BD's future.
Are both of you guys off your meds?
I attacked old people? Your both so full of **** your eyes are brown!

I attacked the data because it sounded fishy to me.
A bunch of so called geeks & most of them don't want or don't know what HDM is, sounds like BS to me.

I bet neither of you actually read or understood my post that you are both attacking.
Please try to find someone with more than a 1st grade education to read it back to you so you can see just how wrong you both are.
This is the entire post you are both flaming,

I'm sorry but in what kind of "geek infested" site does 67.7% of the poll respondents either not need HD or not even know what it is??
That sounds to me like a bunch of die hard hd-dvd fanboys tilting a poll.
That sounds more like the response you get from polling a nursing home not a geek site!!

The only way it's the end of the discussion is to those hardcore hd-dvd guys that are bitter they lost the war.


4 sentences that neither of you read or understood!
Attacking old people? please! get a clue.

Go ahead & spin it any way you like, your just making yourselves look like fools.
I'm sure you both think yours is the only opinion that matters & anyone that disagrees with you must be a troll but seriously you both need to get a life & move on, the war is over!
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Old 02-21-2008   #386
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

I have to mention that you guys are all out of order. And that comment about your eyes being brown, is totally disrespectful based on the rules on this forum.

I really do not understand these personal attacks. That is not why this forum was created.

And you dishonor Jerry and his staff each and everytime you do it.
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Old 02-21-2008   #387
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Angry Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

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Originally Posted by deacongreg View Post
I have to mention that you guys are all out of order. And that comment about your eyes being brown, is totally disrespectful based on the rules on this forum.

I really do not understand these personal attacks. That is not why this forum was created.

And you dishonor Jerry and his staff each and everytime you do it.
His original post attacking me & calling me names (also against the rules of this forum) was reported & nothing was done, he attacked me again & then Lotus piled on.
You are a mod, you should have at least told Vinyl Rules! that his attack was against forum rules & told him it was unacceptable.
My original response was quite civil but when no action was taken to his attack by the mods & he attacked me again & said I was attacking old people I defended myself.

If you have a problem with me fine, let me know in a PM & I'll leave but if you mods are going to allow attacks like that without doing anything about it don't expect me to sit around & take abuse from these guys for no reason without striking back.

If someone disagrees with me fine, there are ways to do that without name calling & flaming.
Challenge my facts, disagree with my opinions, that's fine, I don't have a problem with that, but when I'm personally attacked & do the right thing by reporting it & nothing is done about it I will defend myself.

I understand you guys like controversy, it brings in new members, but those guys never stick around & contribute, where have all the die hard hd-dvd guys that showed up in the heat of the battle gone since the war was ended?

The war is over & it's time to clean house & bring this back to a place where people can discuss home theater & not have to fend off attacks from egotistical blow hards that refuse to understand that theirs is not the only opinion!
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Old 02-21-2008   #388
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Talking Web Movies Show Why DVDs Sell

Here's one for the download pundits:
From The New York Times, Thursday February 21, 2008:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/te...h/21pogue.html
________________________________________ _________________________

By DAVID POGUE
Published: February 21, 2008

Ten days ago, Netflix announced that it would abandon HD DVD, Toshiba's entry in the high-definition DVD format war. Six days ago, Wal-Mart dropped HD DVD, too. Then two days ago, Toshiba surrendered, marking the end of the most pointless format war since Betamax-VHS.

Man, if they have Friday beer bashes over at Toshiba, this week's will be a real downer.

Why did so many companies dump HD DVD so fast? Intriguingly, one often-cited reason is the approaching era of Internet movie downloads. The logic goes like this: as long as there's a format war, consumers won't buy DVD players of either type. By settling on a single format - it doesn't really matter which one - the movie and electronics industries can at least start milking the remaining years of the DVD's life.

In fact, though, the Internet movie download era is more distant than pundits think, for four colossal reasons.

First, downloadable movies require high-speed Internet connections - and only about half of American households have them. That number won't change much for years.

Second, downloaded movies don't include the director's commentaries, deleted scenes, alternate endings, alternate language soundtracks or other DVD goodies. It's just not as rich an experience.

Third, movie downloads don't deliver the audio and video quality of DVD discs - even standard-def ones. Internet movies are compressed to download faster, which affects picture quality, and offer older, more compressed audio soundtracks than modern DVDs. (Check out the astounding quality-comparison photos at http://tinyurl.com/3e488m for details.)

Finally, today's movie-download services bear the greasy policy fingerprints of the movie studio executives - and when it comes to the new age of digital movies, these people are not, ahem, known for their vision.

For example, no matter which movie-download service you choose, you'll find yourself facing the same confusing, ridiculous time limits for viewing. You have to start watching the movie you've rented within 30 days, and once you start, you have to finish it within 24 hours.

Where's the logic? They've got your money, so why should they care if you start watching on the 30th day or the 31st?

Then there is the 24-hour limit. Suppose you typically do not start a movie until 7:30 p.m., after dinner and the homework have been put away. If you do not have time to finish the movie in one sitting, you cannot resume at 7:30 tomorrow night; at that point, the download will have self-destructed.

What would the studios lose by offering a 27-hour rental period? Or three days, or even a week? Nothing. In fact, they'd attract millions more customers. (At the very least, instead of just deleting itself, the movie should say: "Would you like another 24-hour period for an additional $1?")

Then there's the fact that to protect their cash cows, most studios don't release their movies on the Internet until a month after they've been available on DVD.

Despite these limitations, plenty of companies are staking out property on the digital-download frontier. Some deliver movies to your computer screen, which will never appeal to anybody but nerds; virtually nobody gathers the family 'round the old Dell on movie night.

Several boxes, however, deliver movies straight to your TV, usually for $3 to $5 each. Here are their report cards.

Apple TV ($230). Thanks to a free software upgrade, Apple's sleek little box has taken on a whole new life. It now connects directly to the iTunes store - no computer needed. Movies are stored on the Apple TV's internal hard drive.

Standard-def movies begin to play only a few seconds after you've selected them; you watch the beginning while the rest is downloading. High-def movies take several minutes to begin playing.

In a couple of years, Apple TV may be the box to beat. The movie store is fun to navigate, picture quality is high and wireless networking is built-in, unlike its rivals. You can buy episodes from any of 650 TV series on demand (usually $2 an episode, no ads), which its competitors can't touch. Finally, of course, the Apple TV does a lot of other stuff; it can display all the music, pictures and movies from your Mac or PC and play podcasts and videos from the Web.

But the Apple TV movie store's shelves look a little bare. Fewer than 1,000 movies are available, and only 100 are in high definition; compare with the 90,000 titles offered by Netflix on DVD, 900 in high-def. (Apple points out that its store's music catalog started out tiny, too - 200,000 songs, compared with 6 million today.) There are some silly bugs in the debut software, too.

Instant gratification: A-. Selection: D. Overall movie joy: B.

TiVo/Amazon Unbox ($100 and up, plus monthly fee). Here's another box whose original purpose was something other than movie downloads. But among its blossoming portfolio of video features, TiVo lets you rent or buy movies downloaded from Amazon.com's Unbox service.

At least you no longer have to order these movies at Amazon.com (although you can, using your Mac or PC, if you prefer to type movie titles with a real keyboard instead of fussing with on-screen alphabets). You can do the whole transaction right from the couch.

Show time is not instantaneous, either; on high-def TiVos, you can't start watching until 10 minutes after you order, and on older models, you have to wait for the whole movie to download (1 to 5 hours). Selection is still slim: 3,200 movies are available to rent; 4,700 available to buy. None are in high definition.

Instant gratification: B-. Selection: C. Overall movie joy: B-.

Xbox 360 ($350 and up). Yet again, here's a box whose movie service isn't the primary attraction (here, it's games). In this case, though, the movie thing isn't just secondary - it's way, way down the list.

You have to watch movies within 14 days, not 30. The remote control isn't designed for video playback. You pay using a confusing system of Microsoft "points," which you must buy in $5 increments. And although there are plenty of TV shows available, only 300 movies are in the catalog at any given time, about half in high definition.

Instant gratification: A-. Selection: D. Overall movie joy: D.

Vudu ($300). This compact black box comes loaded with the beginnings of 5,000 movies. When you rent or buy one, therefore, playback begins instantly. About 20 new movies arrive on the box each week, pushing older ones off the 250-gigabyte hard drive.

Vudu is the only dedicated movie box . The interface is pure and clean, picture quality is tops and the remote has only four buttons (plus a terrific scroll wheel).

On the downside, many of those 5,000 movies are pure direct-to-video dreck (anyone for "San Franpsycho" tonight?). Confusingly, movies on the list come and go according to Vudu's deals with the studios. And you need a pretty fast connection; basic DSL subscribers need not apply.

Instant gratification: A. Selection: B+. Overall movie joy: B+.

When competing with the humble DVD, Internet movie boxes do poorly on price, selection and viewing flexibility (that is, how much time you have to watch). Their sole DVD-smashing feature is the convenience; you get the movie right now.

Meanwhile, other sources of instant movie gratification are emerging. Comcast, the nation's largest cable TV company, offers 1,000 on-demand movies each month, many of them free; by year's end, it intends to increase that number to 6,000 (half in high-def) - and you don't have to buy a special box.

The point is that the whole Internet-movies thing is still in its fumbling, bumbling infancy; someday, we'll look at these limited-selection, limited-time services and laugh.

In the meantime, congratulations to Blu-ray, the winning next-generation DVD format. Clearly, spinning silver discs will remain the dominant movie-delivery method for years to come.

E-mail: pogue@nytimes.com
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Old 02-21-2008   #389
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Lightbulb Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

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Originally Posted by gstarr View Post
No doubt, Blu Ray will never be as big as DVD's. But it will be quite big. Sure, it might not be big with the under 30 crowd, except when they get Blu Ray drives in their computers. But the largest demographic in the US are baby boomers and they mostly own (or will shortly) HDTV's and will buy large quantities of Blu Ray players. Parents will buy them. They will even be offered eventually in SUV's and the like for back seat watching.

Equating audio with video purchases is incorrect. Evolutionarily, the ears were never as acute as the eyes. Anyone that can't see the difference between good upconverted dvd's and Hi-Def 1080p content on a good HDTV has either bad eyes, doesn't care, or is still so angry over HD that they will give no quarter.

Maybe when most of America has fiber optics going directly to their house or apartment to deliver Hi-Def video in relatively quick time Blu Ray will lose sales and gradually disappear. But that day, except for the few millions that live in major cities, is years away. And quite a few years.

Geeks and the under 30 set never made VHS popular or dvds. They were far too expensive when they first came out. It was anumber of years before VHS was under $300. Same is true with dvd players.

Greg
When BD gets to PC's???!!! Already there. I can rip to my drive - I don't have to use PowerDVD if I don't want to - Media Player 11 plays ripped content (learned this trick the other night). I don't care about special features, commentaries, ect. I would be alright with BD and just a 7.1 LPCM audio track...thats it! I'm over 40 but still considered a GenX'r.

I'm just the opposite - my ear's are much more acute than my eyes (I'm nearsighted - almost blind without my glasses). My hearing, however, is pretty good, not as good as when I was 22 (blame the Navy for that) but its still pretty good compared to most people.

Geeks are changing things - sales are begining to run by volume and convinence. I said in another post that convergence is the word for 2008 - read this article http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=319887 couldn't post this on the Bluray board because people get too defensive. The point I would be making is the word "convergence" being used in the article as a point to be made. CompTIA merging with CEA to form the DHTI+ certification (which I am now working on). It covers skills and knowledge needed to bring home technologies onto a single PC network across the latest versions of vendor software packages. I'm excited because I'm getting ready to possibly make the most money in my life!!!

People can be like the Swiss Watch corporation and not see the paradigm shift - but I plan to be like Texas Instruments and get in on the ground floor and ride this wave till it breaks!

Remember this word "C-O-N-V-E-R-G-E-N-C-E", coming to home, workspace, dinning facility, ect. near you.
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Old 02-21-2008   #390
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

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Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
Are both of you guys off your meds?
I attacked old people? Your both so full of **** your eyes are brown!

I attacked the data because it sounded fishy to me.
A bunch of so called geeks & most of them don't want or don't know what HDM is, sounds like BS to me.

I bet neither of you actually read or understood my post that you are both attacking.
Please try to find someone with more than a 1st grade education to read it back to you so you can see just how wrong you both are.
This is the entire post you are both flaming,

I'm sorry but in what kind of "geek infested" site does 67.7% of the poll respondents either not need HD or not even know what it is??
That sounds to me like a bunch of die hard hd-dvd fanboys tilting a poll.
That sounds more like the response you get from polling a nursing home not a geek site!!

The only way it's the end of the discussion is to those hardcore hd-dvd guys that are bitter they lost the war.


4 sentences that neither of you read or understood!
Attacking old people? please! get a clue.

Go ahead & spin it any way you like, your just making yourselves look like fools.
I'm sure you both think yours is the only opinion that matters & anyone that disagrees with you must be a troll but seriously you both need to get a life & move on, the war is over!
Moose,

Your words speak volumes about you.

I teach a few business courses in addition to consulting.

Unfortunately, most students today come out of the secondary school system with incredibly poor writing skills. And I tell them, when you are working for a large company, you will have to write reports, you will have to write project updates, and you will have to write personnel reviews if you have any direct reports working for you.

I really emphasize with my students is how critical it is for one's corporate success to be able to communicate well, both verbally, and even more importantly, communicate well in writing.

And depending on the size of your company and your corporate structure, much of what you write may be read by senior execs within the company who have never actually met you and have never actually spoken with you, either. So they know squat about you.

These senior execs will form their first impression of you from how well you write and express yourself in the reports, etc. you have written. And first impressions are lasting impressions in the corporate world.

I have seen great writers and terrible managers with horrible people skills sky-rocket up the corporate ladder.

And I've seen people who are great managers with terrific people skills plummet down the corporate latter, get demoted, or even become redundant (fired) because they are poor writers.

Why? The senior execs form their impressions of managers they've never actually met, all from how they present themselves in writing. One's writing skills in today's corporate world go a long way in determining whether you become a rising corporate super-star or a sinking corporate nobody.

Just like everyone here has now formed impressions about those of us who have been active in this thread.

BTW, I just read David Pogue's article that is reprinted above, and I disagree with him. He probably doesn't yet know that Verizon has run out of FiOS boxes because demand for their fibre-to-the-home product is so strong in their service areas. And they are the largest local telephone company in the US. In fact, Verizon has almost as many customers as did the old AT&T before the DOJ dismantled AT&T.

Verizon is now in the unenviable position of now have to tell customers there is going to be somewhat of a wait before they can get their broadband and video services.

I respect David as a fellow writer, but in this instance I respectfully disagree with his viewpoint regarding Broadband: I think Broadband penetration is going to accelerate, exponentially, except in sparsely populated rural areas.

But these rural areas could be served by 3G and 4G carriers if the customers are willing to pay higher prices for slower access.

Case in point: At our summer home in the mountains, we pay $45/month for 1.5 MB wireless broadband. There are no other alternatives, except for a more expensive and slower DBS downlink with a dial-up uplink. At home number two, we're paying Embarq about half this rate for significantly faster access.

And I believe HD downloads will make all forms of DVD redundant and DVD sales will probably peak in 2009 or 2010, I really think it will be all downhill, at least in the US market, after 2010 for DVD physical media sales. The people who download iTunes and other electronic media to their iPods and MP3 players are a significantly larger customer base than those of us who participate in this forum.

The marketplace will follow the money, and the money is with the majority who download their music now, not the minority of us who still purchase physical media. Ultimately, Blue Ray will be to DVD was was SACD and DVD-A was to Redbook CD's. And we all know CD sales have tanked due to downloads, and they will never recover.

Let's end this for now and rekindle this discussion in 2010.
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