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Old 01-16-2008   #25
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

Originally Posted by JerryDelColliano View Post
Toshiba and MS NEED to have a good next couple of weeks. Its that simple.
This week we’ve seen dramatic price cuts by Toshiba and just today there are reports of HD DVD commercials during American Idol (which is a very high profile media buy).

Is it enough? No, but it’s not a bad start. At least HD DVD is off the ground and throwing punches again. Let’s see what else they have up their sleeve, but so far I’m impressed.
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Old 01-16-2008   #26
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

Originally Posted by View Post
Upon the release of recent news on Warner Bros. shifting its HD home video support from both formats to only Blu-ray, many of the mainstream media outlets quickly jumped to the conclusion that “the HD format war was over.” The idea of the format war being over couldn’t be further from the truth, although Sony’s Blu-ray is without question picking up supporters. Conjecture from the recent Consumer Electronic Show suggests Sony is helping their cause with as much as $500,000,000 per studio willing to jump on to their sidelines, but that support and the figure have not been easy to confirm so far. The same rumors surfaced when Sony was battling for high-resolution audio supremacy with their SACD format vs. the also-doomed DVD-Audio format.
[Big honkin' snip!]
I don’t want to predict who is going to win the format war at this stage, as there are too many battles left to fight. However, I can tell you, no matter what you read in the mainstream press, this war is not quite over yet.
by: Jerry Del Colliano

I respectfully disagree and I think you are completely off-base and wrong - There is no winner.

Blue Ray may have won the battle, but both formats have lost the war.


Hmmmmm. Let's look at some history.

Edison's wax cylinders were the paradigm shift that brought pre-recorded music to the masses: The music companies tried to kill wax cylinders as they saw them as a threat to their sales of sheet music.

Has anyone in this group ever actually purchased any sheet music in their lifetime?

Wax cylinders were made redundant by shellac 78's

Shellac 78's were made redundant by mono 33 1/3 LP's

Mono 33 1/3 LP's were made redundant by stereo 33 1/3 LP's

CD's have mostly made 33 1/3 LP's redundant (Hurts my fingers to type this as I really prefer vinyl )

SACD and DVD-A tried to make CD's redundant, but failed miserably. iTunes and other download sites have made most physical audio media redundant for many users.

Now, on the video side:

Beta was the paradigm shift that brought movies to the masses: The studios tried to kill Beta, but now they make much more money off sales of pre-recorded movies than they do off movie ticket sales in theatres

VHS made Beta redundant for movie viewing (particularly when the Porn industry chose VHS!)

LD's made VHS redundant for movie viewing

DVD's made LD's redundant for movie viewing

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are attempting to make DVD's redundant, but technology and the market are moving much too fast for this to ever happen

The cable companies and telco's that provide VOD (video on demand) are trying to make most physical video media redundant for many users.

Some observations:

1. Anyone see a pattern here? Does anyone who works for a music or movie conglomerate even know what the phrase "paradigm shift" means?

Can they even pronounce these two words?

2. All of these changes/paradigm shifts have taken place in the last three decades: Just how many times are the idiots who run the big music and movie conglomerates think we, the consumer, are going to keep buying a "newer and better" version of entertainment software we already own and enjoy.

3. The entertainment software companies seem to be trying to follow the marketing practices of the big pharmaceutical companies: When a stellar performer that has been a money train for a pharmaceutical company nears it's patent expiration date, the pharmaceutical company tries to have a "newer and better" drug ready to replace it when the patent expires.

Ditto for the software entertainment companies: The Redbook patent for CD's issued to Sony and Philips has either expired (or is close to expiration - Someone can perhaps clarify this), so Sony attempted to force SACD's as a replacement for CD's and other manufacturers chose to try and ride the DVD-A bandwagon with no success.

Bottom line: Just how many copies and formats of say, The Sound of Music or Led Zepplin I, do you REALLY need?

I am quite happy with my upscaling plays almost anything $170 Oppo and buying any regular DVD I want for $10 to $15 - I get better sound and a better viewing experience than I could ever get in the best stadium-seat movie theatre and I don't even have to leave my house.

Who needs a movie theatre any longer - Are they becoming redundant as well? And who needs Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, other than Sony, Microsoft and Toshiba?

And if you don't believe me, then believe Malcolm Forbes: He is saying the exact same thing. Check out:

The Blue Ray/HD-DVD war may have a winner, but it was a Pyhrric victory.

Jerry, you need to face up to the fact that while industry writers like you may care and feel passionate about these issues, you are a tiny, insignificant minority, and your purchases don't even register on any company's radar screen.

The average consumer who buys this stuff DOES NOT care, and high definition DVD formats and the players and the discs will soon join the detritus of the discards now rotting in that huge landfill of failed consumers electronics and formats.

What's next on the horizon spiraling in for a crash?

Can anyone say "Ibiquity" and HD Radio?

Last edited by Vinyl Rules!; 01-16-2008 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 01-16-2008   #27
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

both formats are a great way of watching your favorite movies and the improvement over standard dvd is undeniable, that being said i'd have to say kudos to toshiba for coming to market with a great product from the begining and offering everything they said they would have. It show that the company did their reserch and wasn't just making it up as they go along. I have both hd dvd and blu-ray so don't think for one minute that I favor one format over the least not by much. sony would have us think that you need 50 gigs on a disc to fit hd video and audio when that just isn't the case at all, eg. batman begins, 300, troy, all off these discs have a dolby tru hd track and 1080p video and from the professional reviews i've read they look identical in both formats with the exception of batman begins(which is only available on hd dvd) I also have 300 in both formats and I can confirm this for 300. everyone wants to have hi def content and hd dvd is the cheapest way to do that without breaking the bank, not to mention first gen hd dvd players can play back content that third gen players can, the same can't be said for blu-ray with the exception of the ps3. Don't get me wrong I think that blu ray is a great format and I have some of the best disney movies in my library to prove it. It's just that I continually hear people make the point about disc space and as far as hd dvd is concerned they have all the space they need for hi def video and audio.
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Old 01-17-2008   #28
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

If you think that HDDVD doesn't have the capacity for stellar audio and video then you haven't seen Blade Runner!!

The bottom line is the compressionist just has to work a bit harder that's all.
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Old 01-17-2008   #29
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

I don't think comparing Blade Runners audio is even fair, that movie is like 20 yrs old and at best was filmed in stereo. I have heard excellent audio from both formats, but then again can't yet even get my hands on a good pre/pro that decodes the newer formats so what do I know...
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Old 01-17-2008   #30
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Default Re: HD Disc Format War Not Over By a Long Shot

My point is with wonderfully efficient VC1 or to a slightly lesser degree AVC there is plenty of room for stellar extras and great audio. We all know True HD is lossless and far more efficient than 1970's LPCM. Sony is even starting to realize this and using it quite a bit instead of PCM on their bluray titles. I also will take 1.5 mbps DD+ over 640 kbps DD any day of the week. In June of 2006 HD-30 proved it could be a Goliath in David's clothing. Constantine offered 5 star PQ, True Hd audio, IME PiP, 8 hours of extras on a paltry 30gb disc.
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