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Old 12-17-2007   #19
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Default Re: Study Shows "Non-Audiophiles" Can't Hear Difference Between 64 and 256 kbps MP3 F

I still keep two music libraries, one compressed to 192kbps, one in AIFF though I really need to redo the compressed one to 320+ as iPod have gotten so much bigger nowadays.

I do believe this article, if it wasn't true, why would so many people buy Bose systems for the $$ and actually believe they have a great system??

I have to say I cringe when people at work find out I write for AVRev.com and then say something like "you must have a really good system, do you have Bose?" I have tamed down the response to just say they wouldn't know of the gear I have, which is somewhat snobby, but true in most cases.

Fortunately for me, some of my fellow MD's do have some really nice rigs, so there are some I can talk with!
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Old 12-18-2007   #20
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Default Re: Study Shows "Non-Audiophiles" Can't Hear Difference Between 64 and 256 kbps MP3 F

As the founder of AIX Records and the developer of the iTrax.com website, I disagree with the assessment of the Cognitive study, just as I do the paper by David Moran in the September issue of The Journal of Audio Engineering Society. It is possible, under the right conditions, to have average listeners react more positively to HD Audio than to low resolution MP3s and even CDs.

The requirement is that the things being compared actually are different AND that is determined by the quality of the original recording. I have a great sounding studio with top of the line B&W speakers, Meridian 800/801, Audience Cables and Bryston Amps. The space was designed by Peter Gruneisen of Studio Bau:ton and tuned by Trinnov Audio. Our recordings contain no artificial reverberation, no equalization was applied and no dynamic processing of any kind was employed at any stage. We do not master our tracks...they are what they are.

In the numerous demos that I do for visitors of all levels of interest, I play The Latin Jazz Trio "Mujaka" track of the award-winning "Mosiac" track from Laurence Juber's Guitar Noir. The high frequency material in these tracks goes quite high...actually beyond the normally accepted upper range of hearing. Keith Howard measure the high end extending to 35kHz in his article in Stereophile form a year ago. When I play the same track at various levels of resolution (MP3 128 kbps, MP3 256 kbps, CD-Audio Stereo 44.1/16 bits) the experience is difference and less compelling. I hope to be able to do a rigorous study in the near future but thus far I can only state that with the right source materials...the listening experience is noticeable.

Try if for yourself. Download the Mujaka track as a 19s MP3 file and 96/24 PCM file from the iTrax.com web site and compare them. If you can tell a difference, please let me know.
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Old 12-18-2007   #21
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Default Re: Study Shows "Non-Audiophiles" Can't Hear Difference Between 64 and 256 kbps MP3 F

All of us who visit sites such as this one tend to be passionate about music. We want it to sound as good as it can get. We want the best equipment we can afford. The average Joe feels that there is no point in demanding higher resolution audio when his $100.00 a pair speakers couldn't reproduce the difference anyway. None of the people I work with have ever heard of FLAC, and very few of them know what a WAV file is. When I say to them that I do not own any MP3s they are dumbfounded as to why I do not care to have 3000 songs on my player. They just can't comprehend why I would waste a whole CD/R for one album's worth of music when with MP3s I could get many, many more songs on the same CD/R.

I'm not surprised at all to learn that someone has compared one inferior format with another inferior format and concludes that only audiophiles hear a difference. Once you've accepted the compromise of compressing CD quality down to MP3 at 256Kb you've already lost that part of the sound spectrum that only high quality gear can reproduce. From that point, comparing one level of compression to another level of compression is not all that dramatic. I guarantee that if this guy would compare 96/24 with his 128k MP3 on any mid-fi system he would realize just how much has been lost.

I wish that the music industry would provide us with the highest resolution possible and let us decide as individuals how much compression we can live with. For me that would be none!

Where do we end up if we continue to use the logic that the difference between 192/24 and 94/24 is so slight as to make the higher resolution a wasted effort. That 44/16 is so close to 96/24 that it too is folly. Since only an audiophile can hear the difference between a CD and MP3@256 then 44/16 is not required.

In the end, we can all sell our 'high end' systems and buy iPods! Since there will be no hi-fidelity sources there is no since in spending all this money to reproduce it. Sigh.
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Old 12-18-2007   #22
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Smile Re: Study Shows "Non-Audiophiles" Can't Hear Difference Between 64 and 256 kbps MP3 F

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt View Post
I still keep two music libraries, one compressed to 192kbps, one in AIFF though I really need to redo the compressed one to 320+ as iPod have gotten so much bigger nowadays.

I do believe this article, if it wasn't true, why would so many people buy Bose systems for the $$ and actually believe they have a great system??

I have to say I cringe when people at work find out I write for AVRev.com and then say something like "you must have a really good system, do you have Bose?" I have tamed down the response to just say they wouldn't know of the gear I have, which is somewhat snobby, but true in most cases.

Fortunately for me, some of my fellow MD's do have some really nice rigs, so there are some I can talk with!
You know Dr. Source, that you are in a unique position. Those doctors who think BOSE is king, to me this would be a great opportunity for you to educate them a little. Just like if you were sharing medical terms or medical info on a patient, you can peak their interest on the high end.
In fact, if any of them are cool enough with you, invite them over to hear your system, and who knows what will happen.
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Old 12-18-2007   #23
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Default Re: Study Shows "Non-Audiophiles" Can't Hear Difference Between 64 and 256 kbps MP3 F

Quote:
Where do we end up if we continue to use the logic that the difference between 192/24 and 94/24 is so slight as to make the higher resolution a wasted effort. That 44/16 is so close to 96/24 that it too is folly. Since only an audiophile can hear the difference between a CD and MP3@256 then 44/16 is not required.
The new Dave Matthews Blu-ray Disc has 24/48 2.0 PCM stereo and 24/96 5.1 TrueHD. Check out my review at dvdfile:

http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?opt...=6415&Itemid=3

it's fascinating what a subjective difference that 96 kHz really makes... from one audiophile to another...

p.s. I ONLY do lossless on my iPod. No lossy bit-rate has been tolerable once I compared... even on headphones and even when driving on the car speakers with road noise...
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Old 12-18-2007   #24
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Default Re: Study Shows "Non-Audiophiles" Can't Hear Difference Between 64 and 256 kbps MP3 F

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt View Post
I do believe this article, if it wasn't true, why would so many people buy Bose systems for the $$ and actually believe they have a great system??

I have to say I cringe when people at work find out I write for AVRev.com and then say something like "you must have a really good system, do you have Bose?" I have tamed down the response to just say they wouldn't know of the gear I have
That is sooo true! I'm trying to resist writing the acronym for my laughing so hard.

I remember a time when I was still in sales when an entire family came into the store requesting to hear a demo on the Bose AM7(?) cube speaker system (this was the same month that a reviewer for an audio magazine wrote an honest review of the speaker system in question. He gave it 2 out of 5 stars or some equally worthy rating...later got fired for it). Anyway, I obliged the family and offered to demo one or two other similar speaker systems from other companies at less money as well. They agreed. After having heard Bose, Boston Acoustics, and Polk Audio in a somewhat blind test, I asked them which one they liked the sound of, A, B, or C. They DIDN'T pick Bose. When I told them which one they chose, they seemed very surprised. They huddled for all of 6 seconds, the father spoke up, "We'll take the Bose please."

Last edited by Enoch; 12-18-2007 at 11:12 PM..
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