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Old 11-25-2007   #7
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Angry Re: Helping Audiophile Dealers with the "Audio Room of the Future"

Jerry, like usual, you are laser beamed right it on the major topic. Your passion for music and the AV industry is wonderful. But, though its been a minute from my Harvey Electronic days on 45th street in Manhattan, I`m with you all the way, but I do not see this change.

My first experience with high end sales was snobbery too!! And not much has changed today. Guys like Sound by Singer, I just can not see them making this very smart move.

kennyt, I agree. I mentioned in another thread last week that, though I still prefer separates, that home theater receivers like Sunfire, Denon, Onkyo, Rotel and Yamaha may become the new "hubs' of our systems as technologies continues to move forward.
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Old 11-25-2007   #8
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Default Re: Helping Audiophile Dealers with the "Audio Room of the Future"

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Originally Posted by deacongreg View Post
Jerry, like usual, you are laser beamed right it on the major topic. Your passion for music and the AV industry is wonderful. But, though its been a minute from my Harvey Electronic days on 45th street in Manhattan, I`m with you all the way, but I do not see this change.

My first experience with high end sales was snobbery too!! And not much has changed today. Guys like Sound by Singer, I just can not see them making this very smart move.

kennyt, I agree. I mentioned in another thread last week that, though I still prefer separates, that home theater receivers like Sunfire, Denon, Onkyo, Rotel and Yamaha may become the new "hubs' of our systems as technologies continues to move forward.
Yes Deacon,
I agree that the higher end mid fi's may very well be the choice in the future. Sure its generic and somewhat fast food/shuffle off/cafeteria type of stores that don't necessarily cater to the whims of the more well heeled-a___ compulsive few; now with that said, I once spoke with a very pragmatic, level headed, mid-fi kind a guy whose well respected in the audio business and owner of, who once told me that any flag ship model lets say of Onkyo or the like, is just as good as any group of separates one can throw together. Wouldn't it be great if both the high enders as well as the mid folks could gather some examples from each side of the fence, to A/B together. But of course as far as I've seen this doesn't happen; one would have to dismantle their many miles of wires and drag them into either or. Note: I have only heard once or twice in my many years, exceptional sound, that had totally enveloped me and drew me into a time and place where I wanted to remain; and I would venture it was perhaps the acoustical enviornment more than anything else.
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Old 11-26-2007   #9
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Default Re: Helping Audiophile Dealers with the "Audio Room of the Future"

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Yes Deacon,
I agree that the higher end mid fi's may very well be the choice in the future. Sure its generic and somewhat fast food/shuffle off/cafeteria type of stores that don't necessarily cater to the whims of the more well heeled-a___ compulsive few; now with that said, I once spoke with a very pragmatic, level headed, mid-fi kind a guy whose well respected in the audio business and owner of, who once told me that any flag ship model lets say of Onkyo or the like, is just as good as any group of separates one can throw together. Wouldn't it be great if both the high enders as well as the mid folks could gather some examples from each side of the fence, to A/B together. But of course as far as I've seen this doesn't happen; one would have to dismantle their many miles of wires and drag them into either or. Note: I have only heard once or twice in my many years, exceptional sound, that had totally enveloped me and drew me into a time and place where I wanted to remain; and I would venture it was perhaps the acoustical enviornment more than anything else.
He was clueless. To suggest that a high end Onkyo can compete with separates from even NAD is ludicrous. I myself have heard side by side A/B comparisons and while the Onkyo might have some things going for it, it can not compare with the sound from the separates. There are many reasons for this.

I know well respected members of this business who think that there is no audible difference between lamp wire or $20K worth of Transparent, Kimber, Acoustic Zen, etc.

I've been told I'm hearing what I want to hear for years.

I know differently and have been involved with many double blind tests. There is a difference in sound through out, but rest assured if you spend big money on a system from say Theta, Meridian, or Mark Levinson you will be getting brilliance.

Personally, I think Meridian is the best sound you can get right now. However I'd settle for Theta at 2/3rds the cost.
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Old 11-26-2007   #10
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Default Re: Helping Audiophile Dealers with the "Audio Room of the Future"

Hi Lotus,

Thank you for your feedback. I plan on checking into your above mentioned high end items; I do think though that the wire issue is a little far out for me. I did go into Home Depot awhile back and picked up fifty or a hundred yards of nice see through thick wiring and don't know if it's making a difference in the sound. Tell me, how many times have you been completed involved with an ambiance, enveloping, transcending, all encompassing sound field, whereby you are so content with the psyco-acoustic enviornment that you wish only to remain there in the sound for hours on end?

I heard NAD way back in the early seventies at Century Music in San Jose, CA and was impressed with the nice sound. I had heard, not sure how true it is, that NAD changed hands once or twice; is it still the Company that it use to be?

Also, I read recently that those selling so called high end equipment are purchasing them from China, "like most everthing else", and buying them at a savings so huge, and then peddling them off to us Americans for five times the price? What's wrong with this picture?

Note: I recently purchased the brown colored Zune 30GB player for my wife for Christmas; I purchased it for 100.00 dollars roughly and it really sounds terrific. All that needed to be done was a software upgrade and it would have equalled the newer one's released. I belive the savings were between fifty to a hundred dollar or more. The wi fi capabilities are great and it has a super good FM tuner inside. The screen size and the definition of picture are super.

Here's wishing you and all the
philes the very best Holidays and
a prosperous New Year 2008.

jtmj
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Old 11-26-2007   #11
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Default Re: Helping Audiophile Dealers with the "Audio Room of the Future"

[QUOTE=Lotus;6734]He was clueless. To suggest that a high end Onkyo can compete with separates from even NAD is ludicrous. I myself have heard side by side A/B comparisons and while the Onkyo might have some things going for it, it can not compare with the sound from the separates. There are many reasons for this.
QUOTE]

Totally agreed. I used to work at a place that had the flagships for Denon, Pioneer Elite, Sony ES, Yamaha switchable to a pair of Martin Logan's. When presented with some demanding music (kettle drums on the Crouching Tiger soundtrack comes to mind), they all ran out of capcitance. All except the Yamaha that is. That being said, when driven by a Krell amp (or even a B&K receiver we had), it all sounded great. No problem. Now if sheer abilitly to deliver sound is in question for mid-fi gear, then the quality performance of higher end gear shouldn't even be questioned. Not sure if that makes sense. hope it does.
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Old 11-27-2007   #12
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Default Re: Helping Audiophile Dealers with the "Audio Room of the Future"

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Originally Posted by jtmjnow View Post
Hi Lotus,

Thank you for your feedback. I plan on checking into your above mentioned high end items; I do think though that the wire issue is a little far out for me. I did go into Home Depot awhile back and picked up fifty or a hundred yards of nice see through thick wiring and don't know if it's making a difference in the sound. Tell me, how many times have you been completed involved with an ambiance, enveloping, transcending, all encompassing sound field, whereby you are so content with the psyco-acoustic enviornment that you wish only to remain there in the sound for hours on end?

I heard NAD way back in the early seventies at Century Music in San Jose, CA and was impressed with the nice sound. I had heard, not sure how true it is, that NAD changed hands once or twice; is it still the Company that it use to be?

Also, I read recently that those selling so called high end equipment are purchasing them from China, "like most everthing else", and buying them at a savings so huge, and then peddling them off to us Americans for five times the price? What's wrong with this picture?

Note: I recently purchased the brown colored Zune 30GB player for my wife for Christmas; I purchased it for 100.00 dollars roughly and it really sounds terrific. All that needed to be done was a software upgrade and it would have equalled the newer one's released. I belive the savings were between fifty to a hundred dollar or more. The wi fi capabilities are great and it has a super good FM tuner inside. The screen size and the definition of picture are super.

Here's wishing you and all the
philes the very best Holidays and
a prosperous New Year 2008.

jtmj
Well if you're looking for the best in mid-fi I'd suggest listening to NAD & Arcam separates. I think you can pretty much spend between $3500 to $5000 on them. Where as Theta will cost you roughly $15,000 to $20,000. Meridian and Mark Levinson will cost you about $30,000 or more.

You'll want to hear good speakers too, and in the NAD to Arcam range I'd suggest PSB, Canton, Dynaudio, and Martin Logan off the top of my head.
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