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Cables It's all about connections. Discuss everything about audio cables ranging from balanced to unbalanced, speaker cables to interconnects and beyond.

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Old 08-14-2009   #25
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Default Re: Are cables the weak link in your system?

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Originally Posted by GrtGrfx View Post
ROLF. I went in one day from trailer trash to a rocket scientist. Any more tired clichés you can throw at me?

I don't need an engineering degree or a track in Michigan to field-test a car. I could buy a signal splitter and some high-end cable and compare it to my "zip cord," and maybe one day when I have some spare cash I will. But in the meantime, I can depend on other educated people who know more than I do, and I can decide by myself if I think their information is reliable or not. I don't need white papers but I do pay attention to disinterested observers. You do not appear to be a disinterested observer because you have an emotional stake in the outcome.

So when will you get off your high horse and stop insulting people who don't agree with you? Say...are you one of those home-schooled, pro-life, neo-con, small government, intelligent-design people? That might explain the intensity of your feelings in the face of opinions countering your belief systems.
For the record, people who think Adam & Eve rode dinosaurs to church and believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and who want to kill anything that moves in the Middle East while they lobby against abortion and FOR the death penalty while claiming to be "Christian", are certifiably crazy. I am proudly liberal by nature, fine with the earth being billions of years old, that an event called "the big bang" did take place and that in no way contradicts my own Christianity. In my version of that religion, this Jesus character that in the right wingers world is pro-war, pro death penalty, anti-choice, fearful and hateful of minorities, is actually founded on the idea that you do not judge people and are forgiving by nature and does NOT favor preemptive war and fearmongering as the primary means to influence people. But that's just me. And single payer health care is the way to go. These idiots saying "that's socialized medicine" have NO FREAKING IDEA what that even means or WHY they're even opposed to it. Hopefully, that satisfies your wonderings as to my political leanings. I can see why you'd be confused. The supposed democrats in the house and senate are the most milk-toasty bunch in the history of the country. Only they could have clear majorities in the house and senate and have a wildly popular president in the white house and STILL manage to not get a single thing done the way it should be. Unbelieveable....

So you won't test cables and are arguing with me because you read on the internets and interwebs that it can't make a difference.....and you're wondering why I'm ragging on you a bit???
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Old 08-14-2009   #26
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Default Re: Are cables the weak link in your system?

Posts are beginning to get off the topic a bit.
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Old 08-14-2009   #27
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Default Re: Are cables the weak link in your system?

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Posts are beginning to get off the topic a bit.
Agreed. I'm done as it regards exchanges with GrtGrfx. May he live in ignorant bliss, saving money all the while...
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Old 08-19-2009   #28
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Default Re: Are cables the weak link in your system?

The typical woofer has between 125-250 feet of standard OFHC Copper. A midrange speaker will have between 50-100 feet and a tweeter about 10-25 feet. Not even the most expensive speakers use 12 gauge thickness as a rule or the voice coil windings would be way too thick. I don't dubt that there are a couple of incredibly expensive speakers that employ exotic wire as a selling point, but most definitely not as a measureable acoustic point.

What makes anyone think that the 6 to 10 feet of 12 gauge copper or silver wire going from the amp to the speaker will be less than overkill? I generally use 12 or 14 gauge because it is cheap enough to be using overkill.

The only time you may need 12 gauge or larger diameters if the speakers are incredibly far, or if you have 4 ohm speakers that have impedance dips to around 2 ohms. But even with 2 ohm loads a 12 gauge wire can be used up to 30 feet and a 10 gauge wire up to 50 feet before there is a possibility of audible degradation.

If any of this wire humdrum were really true, how come there isn't a great scientific push for better wiring so your light bulbs would have clearer and fuller spectrum light, or your electric razor would work better, or your electric rangetop would work more efficiently.

Uh oh, now I did it--Monster Cable will be marketting these items shortly :-)

Greg
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Old 08-20-2009   #29
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Default Re: Are cables the weak link in your system?

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The typical woofer has between 125-250 feet of standard OFHC Copper. A midrange speaker will have between 50-100 feet and a tweeter about 10-25 feet. Not even the most expensive speakers use 12 gauge thickness as a rule or the voice coil windings would be way too thick. I don't dubt that there are a couple of incredibly expensive speakers that employ exotic wire as a selling point, but most definitely not as a measureable acoustic point.

What makes anyone think that the 6 to 10 feet of 12 gauge copper or silver wire going from the amp to the speaker will be less than overkill? I generally use 12 or 14 gauge because it is cheap enough to be using overkill.

The only time you may need 12 gauge or larger diameters if the speakers are incredibly far, or if you have 4 ohm speakers that have impedance dips to around 2 ohms. But even with 2 ohm loads a 12 gauge wire can be used up to 30 feet and a 10 gauge wire up to 50 feet before there is a possibility of audible degradation.

If any of this wire humdrum were really true, how come there isn't a great scientific push for better wiring so your light bulbs would have clearer and fuller spectrum light, or your electric razor would work better, or your electric rangetop would work more efficiently.

Uh oh, now I did it--Monster Cable will be marketting these items shortly :-)

Greg
And again, another cable doubter who refuses to listen, using theory only. Why do you even ever need to audition any audio video gear? Specs should tell you all you need to know right? Oh, wait, you mean even though two speakers measure the same, they sound different? Liar, that can't be so, I don't care that you listened to them and in fact they do sound different! Look at the spec sheet! It's the same thing!!! Oy. So get cheap cable and live in blissful ignorance. And it is ignorance I'm sorry. To hold to a position without being willing to test it makes it completely pointless to engage in any kind of dialog.
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Old 08-20-2009   #30
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Default Re: Are cables the weak link in your system?

I can tell you that the owner of a cable company in Calif that starts with "audio..." lives in a multi-million dollar house in Newport Beach. You would not believe the mark-up from materials cost on the "high end" cables. Most are made in China.
Hollywood Studios are often wired with a very good quality Belden cable and field terminated. If that's good enough for mastering multi-track for your CDs and DVDs, you won't be hearing any more than the quality of that cable.
And that's the point. There are so many steps or points in the production and reproduction of music, including the fact that you lose a lot of high end as you age, that you can easily pay for what you can't hear. That high end you swear you can hear might be at 12k but your ears are attenuated at 8k. So what value is a cable that doesn't drop off until 22k?
Me, I go to PartsExpress or MCM Electronics and buy their "high-end" interconnects and speaker cable.
The solution to this mess is for all cables to be certified to some standard similar to HDMI cables. There are lots of technical parameters for cables and all could be tested. At least you could make some judgement by the numbers instead of "It sounds better".
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