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Cables It's all about connections. Discuss everything about audio cables ranging from balanced to unbalanced, speaker cables to interconnects and beyond.

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Old 01-05-2010   #61
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Default Re: What cables do you use?

I'm really happy you are enjoying your sane choice of Blue Jeans cables. They are a very honorable, non-bs, non-hype company. They are quite open about the marketing bs being done on gullible, easily influenced, insecure, electronically ignorant but trusting audiophiles. Marketing of cables is pushy, for the same reason that extended warranties are pushed - a high profit item. I recently purchased some fine cables from www.monoprice.com, very good quality at a non riipoff price. The US is all about profit, greed, upmanship - I hope the economic woes have revealed these false values that are the root cause of our country's predicament.
Instead of being thoroughly conned by the high priced cable purveyors, the money saved should be spent on better speakers, where the improvement actually exists - and obviously so!!! Speakers are well known to be the most responsive to improvement, so why are so many led astray?
By the way, my old friend Bob Carver has been designing and building some very fine tube amplifiers that he has been selling on Ebay. After selling Sunfire, he has the freedom to pursue his first love, building sweet sounding tube amplifiers at a non-elite, non profiteering price.
Dave Ladely
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Old 01-05-2010   #62
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Default Re: What cables do you use?

Thanx, Dave. I always wondered how anyone could actually ask thousands of dollars for a 1M stereo cable. I guess if the market will bear it...that's capitalism for you...or greed. On the same track (since you brought up Mr. Carver & his products),
I was always curious when I saw exorbitantly-priced components: I saw a set of speakers that retailed for $107,000.00, or a $100,000.00 amplifier, & that seemed way out there, even with the highest-quality parts & construction. Somewhere in between "cheap crap" & "way out there" are high-quality, great sounding components.
Someone posted that the actual improvement in sound quality is not related to increase in price: after a certain point, you may get a certain amount of (perceived) improvement in sound, but whether or not it's worth the extra money is the question.
You may get a small increase in performance for twice or three times the price. (Again, after a certain point.)
Maybe I'm not really qualified to expound on this, having just gotten back into the audio thing after a while, but the whole cable discussion kinda brought it out.
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Old 01-05-2010   #63
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Cool Re: What cables do you use?

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Originally Posted by jsound View Post
Thanx, Dave. I always wondered how anyone could actually ask thousands of dollars for a 1M stereo cable. I guess if the market will bear it...that's capitalism for you...or greed. On the same track (since you brought up Mr. Carver & his products),
I was always curious when I saw exorbitantly-priced components: I saw a set of speakers that retailed for $107,000.00, or a $100,000.00 amplifier, & that seemed way out there, even with the highest-quality parts & construction. Somewhere in between "cheap crap" & "way out there" are high-quality, great sounding components.
Someone posted that the actual improvement in sound quality is not related to increase in price: after a certain point, you may get a certain amount of (perceived) improvement in sound, but whether or not it's worth the extra money is the question.
You may get a small increase in performance for twice or three times the price. (Again, after a certain point.)
Maybe I'm not really qualified to expound on this, having just gotten back into the audio thing after a while, but the whole cable discussion kinda brought it out.
People can fool themselves better than anyone else can fool them. Just like the guy who said he didn't like any vodka other than Grey Goose, then, in a double blind test that was conducted pretty well, he had Grey Goose as the least favorite of the vodkas he sampled. Shows the power of suggestion of money, elitism, insecurity, etc., and that psychology trumps reality with many people, as P.T. Barnum and the cable promoters know and have in common. Also, these are characteristics of false values and foolishness, and, after all "fools and their money are soon parted!"
As far as $100,000.00 speakers go, I have found that, after a certain point, what is gained is mainly the ability to fill larger spaces with sound, and that is assuming the speakers are large, with lots of transducers, like the Genesis high end ones, not just ripoffs.
I still have my Infinity Kappa 9s and have not heard any that motivate me to change. Even after I auditioned the $135,000.00 Genesis speakers, which can fill an auditorium with sound. The actual quality of the sound approximated my Kappas. And were designed by Arnie Nudell, the same guy.
I did substitute the Kappa 3" dome midrange speakers with Dynaudio 3" dome midrange domes. The improvement was slight, but they are also physically better built.
As far as amps go, I would agree that they "gild the lily" at the extreme limit, while relying on claims that stretch physics to justify the cost. Well designed amplifiers of about the same power and distortion levels sound very much alike compared to other elements of the audio "chain". Preamplifiers sound less alike, each tends to have its own characteristic sound, besides the myriad features nowadays, and speakers sound much less alike. So, speakers have my attention first, then preamplifiers, then amplifiers. As I have said, cables don't even enter that equation, since they all sound alike, as proven in double blind tests, and I have challenged anyone's opinion against a them taking a real, properly conducted double blind test on any cables. One group added welded coat hangers to the selection of expensive speaker cables in a true double blind test and, even then, no one could reliable tell the difference between any of them. Save your money for upgrading other equipment, especially speakers!

Cheers
dave Ladely

Last edited by DaveLadely; 01-05-2010 at 06:16 PM..
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Old 01-05-2010   #64
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Default Re: What cables do you use?

Dave: I think that your own experience bears put what we both are saying: your replacement drivers cost much less than new speakers, but made a difference. You could have spent a pile of cash, but gotten pretty much the same results.
I believe that speakers are subjective, not absolutes (again, once you pass a certain level), & whatever sounds good to you sounds good to you - some people are fond of a bassier sound, some are not. It also depends on what you listen to - while any good speaker will reproduce accurate sound, some are better if you listen to jazz, some are better if you listen to classical, etc.
(I've heard this said, in particular, of B & W). What it all comes down to, in the end, is your own preference.
Your listening environment also has a profound impact on the speakers you are comfortable with. The same speakers will not sound equal in different rooms. (I think many people ignore this - the speakers that sound great in the showroom may not impress you in your listening environment.)
I say this only from experience - I've helped a few people set up their systems, & found that they were really not aware of the impact that "hard" & "soft" rooms (or furnishings) have.
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Old 01-05-2010   #65
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Wink Re: What cables do you use?

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Originally Posted by jsound View Post
Dave: I think that your own experience bears put what we both are saying: your replacement drivers cost much less than new speakers, but made a difference. You could have spent a pile of cash, but gotten pretty much the same results.
I believe that speakers are subjective, not absolutes (again, once you pass a certain level), & whatever sounds good to you sounds good to you - some people are fond of a bassier sound, some are not. It also depends on what you listen to - while any good speaker will reproduce accurate sound, some are better if you listen to jazz, some are better if you listen to classical, etc.
(I've heard this said, in particular, of B & W). What it all comes down to, in the end, is your own preference.
Your listening environment also has a profound impact on the speakers you are comfortable with. The same speakers will not sound equal in different rooms. (I think many people ignore this - the speakers that sound great in the showroom may not impress you in your listening environment.)
I say this only from experience - I've helped a few people set up their systems, & found that they were really not aware of the impact that "hard" & "soft" rooms (or furnishings) have.
Of course, the listening environment does have a lot of influence on the sound of speakers, but I differ with the subjective opinions, where a person may prefer a bassier sound, etc. All of that amounts to a goal of choosing speakers as if they were musical instruments, where, say, choosing the sound of a Stradivarius over a mass produced violin. Speakers are not musical instruments, they are transducers designed to reproduce sound accurately as possible, without introducing any sound of their own. That is the goal: perfect replication of any music, without imposing anything in between, especially not a characteristic sound of the speaker.
The goal is impossible, but must be kept foremost in mind. If a speaker imposes its own sound, say a "warm" sound, then all music it "reproduces" will be forced to sound "warmer". Thus, the speaker is "filtering" the sound, adding "tone", and has become a "tone control". Yes, warmth is often preferable to cold, its "cozy", pleasant, but this will color all the music. If not perfection of replication, then it should at least be as neutral as possible, and that is more attainable.
I would prefer to hear people say they like "warm" music better than "cold" music, not that they prefer speakers that color all the music "warm".
I have heard people say that some cables are "warmer" than others, that some have more "space" or "air" than others. Pure subjective and inane spoutings, since, as I mentioned, double blind tests have proven them to be unable to differentiate any cable with any reliability.
cheers
dave
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Old 01-06-2010   #66
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Default Re: What cables do you use?

I buy all of my cables and wires from www.monoprice.com for low, low prices and have not had one fail yet. Just like Dave above me, I have proven to many that cost makes no difference in cables.
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