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Cables It's all about connections. Discuss everything about audio cables ranging from balanced to unbalanced, speaker cables to interconnects and beyond.

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Old 08-04-2009   #151
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

People do not have to agree with me. However saying things in the manner of “ Not much physics here."Breaking In" wires is audio voodoo.” Does not add to the conversation, is demeaning and is not worthy of any further comment.

Gstar and I obviously disagree but he states his case very well. I do believe that wires need to be broken in. I am NOT familiar with Belkin’s policies or process. So I can change my statement to some wires need to be broken in. I have heard the difference, but I have never used Belkin audio cables.

“No doubt, everything makes a difference, but what is important is whether the difference is audible. The tiniest variation in cable resistance, induction, and capacitance can be measured, but this doesn't mean that you will hear a difference, let alone an "improvement". This to me is absolute true statement. However, different wires sound different. I should also mention that I found that balanced cables, when properly used, usually sound better than RCA, at least in my system.

Belkin cannot speak for any wires other than the ones they make. Why would other companies tell you to break in cables if they don’t have too. What do they have to gain? I read a long statement by one of the execs at Audioquest (I think it was that company) who believes you do need to break them in. I strongly disagree with the statement: “occurs between the ears of the listener - nowhere else.”

I have asked many a manufacturer what cable they use, they are reluctant to tell, but often do. They do not want to see themselves as endorsing a cable. This would create many problems for them, many of their dealers may not have that cable. Not one high end person has told me that cables do not make a difference.

Statements like “(except maybe those whose hearing ability is similar to a dog's)” again are insulting. What I am to say that manufactures have hearing like a dog. That does not make your case well. It just ends the discussion.

Several friends of mine, who were stereo dealers, did suggest why wires became a profit center: CD players. Apparently record player needles were the original Profit Center on many purchases. As Gstar mentioned, Monster Cable started a whole new trend.
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Old 08-04-2009   #152
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

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Originally Posted by Lefisc View Post
People do not have to agree with me. However saying things in the manner of “ Not much physics here."Breaking In" wires is audio voodoo.” Does not add to the conversation, is demeaning and is not worthy of any further comment.
It was not meant to be demeaning. It was just simple and to the point. You did not give any explanation using physics, engineering, or any other scientific method to explain why cables need to be "broken in." I don't understand why electrons need to have their path "broken in" so that I can hear an audible difference in my set-up. Maybe I just did not understand what you said, and need it explained better.
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Old 08-04-2009   #153
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

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Originally Posted by rlpiii View Post
It was not meant to be demeaning. It was just simple and to the point. You did not give any explanation using physics, engineering, or any other scientific method to explain why cables need to be "broken in." I don't understand why electrons need to have their path "broken in" so that I can hear an audible difference in my set-up. Maybe I just did not understand what you said, and need it explained better.
Come on electrons need to feel warm and cozy before they will move
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Old 08-04-2009   #154
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Thank you for clearing things up.

MY ONLY PHYSICS PART WAS: “every component in a reaction changes in reaction.” I did not mean that to apply to any other part of my post and I should have made that clear.

Even recently, I felt that my new Transparent Speaker Cables sounded better 12-245 hours after I first plugged them in. I listen to them at first, let them run for the day and came home and felt that they sounded much better and smoother.

Recently, I turned on my headphones, using wires I had not used in years. (I moved the headphone amp three feet and needed a longer wire.) For the first hour or two it sounded so harsh that I thought I had mucked something up. A few hours later it sounded just right.

Wes, Come on electrons need to feel warm and cozy before they will move. My brother in law is just like that too.
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Old 08-05-2009   #155
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

"Belkin cannot speak for any wires other than the ones they make. Why would other companies tell you to break in cables if they don’t have too. What do they have to gain?"

The fact is Belkin CAN often speak for other speaker wire suppliers, as they are the one's (including some Chinese companies--for pricing reasons)that often make and package the wires for these companies. Most of the famous and expensive supposed wire manufacturers are nothing except a warehouse and office from which they ship product to wholesalers and retailers. Belkin even makes silver wire in huge quantities.

"I read a long statement by one of the execs at Audioquest (I think it was that company) who believes you do need to break them in. I strongly disagree with the statement: “occurs between the ears of the listener - nowhere else.
I have asked many a manufacturer what cable they use, they are reluctant to tell, but often do. They do not want to see themselves as endorsing a cable. This would create many problems for them, many of their dealers may not have that cable. Not one high end person has told me that cables do not make a difference."

Did the Audioquest exec cite any electrical reasons why wire needs to break in? Of course not. There are none. There are only wishy-washy feel good nonsense statements with no scientific grounding. Denon, Harman Kardon, Yamaha, etc. always recommend their own products. If they thought a particular wire was beneficial they would sell it and recommend it. They don't. Of course the retail dealers would be ****ed if they did recommend a specific wire. But the reason isn't because they might not sell that particular wire, it is because the receiver manufacturers realize they would mightily ****-off the dealers that sell their products because wire and interconnects are extremely profitable for them and if the manufacturers said that any good quality wire would do, the dealers would be left in a sorry small profit situation where "the emperor has no clothes".

Polk used to sell their own wire, but dealers complained about them cutting into their main profit areas--so Polk relented and stopped selling wire, which--by the way, they didn't produce to begin with. Heck, McIntosh used to zip cord and other low tech stuff at hi-fi shows, but they stopped when they embarrassed listeners. A few listeners noted that their system sounded wonderful and what wires were they using. You could imagine their embarrassment when the truth hit them.

I know I won't convince most of those that want to believe in wire break-in and the audible difference of wires. Just as you won't convince a Muslim that Christianity is the way, or vice versa. People generally hold on to their belief systems and that is just as true in the audiophile world. Maybe even more so, because there is money involved. Afterall, look how many advertisements there are for wire and interconnects in Stereophile, which is undoubtedly near the biggest offender of the SUBJECTIVE view on audio, rather than the OBJECTIVE view.

Greg
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Old 08-05-2009   #156
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

I posted to this discussion previously and still maintain that for the most part the claims made by cable manufacturers and sales people is snake oil.

I've been involved in the audio industry manufacturing speakers and electronics. One of my best friends is a well known audio engineer.

And, his opinion is cables are snake oil. Cables are a profit center for hi fi stores whether it is a big box or your local high end boutique. One of the posters stated and is correct in that the markup or margin for cables is 50% or higher.

Another friend of mine is a recording engineer and his studio used Mogami cable through out the recording process. He was of the same opinion.

IF a store can persuade a customer to purchase Siltech or Transparent cables for example the store can make a couple thousand dollars profit on a system with cables alone.

If the customer is happy or you are happy, great!!

BUT my experience is Caveat emptor!!

JBK
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