Audio Video Revolution Forum  

Go Back   Audio Video Revolution Forum > Audio-Video Electronics > Cables

Cables It's all about connections. Discuss everything about audio cables ranging from balanced to unbalanced, speaker cables to interconnects and beyond.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-2009   #133
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 64
Lightbulb Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkmw View Post
Dave,

What cables, (speaker and interconnects), do you use? and, if known, what cables does Bob Carver use?

mark
I am not sure what Bob uses right now. Neither of us buys those hyped up cables and we are offended by the false claims for them, which are of the same ilk as some food supplement and cosmetic and "snake oil" con jobs; con artists, including some marketing methods, use the ignorance and trust of potential customers against them in order to sell them on false claims.
I had superb hearing some years back, tested by an audiologist to hear to 22khz, which made me very sensitive to distortion. Bob used my "golden ears" for testing. I was so bothered by distortion by amps when the music was just beginning to sound realistic that I prevailed upon Bob to help me build an amp with at least quadruple the power of the existing McIntosh 275 and Marantz Model 9s. I wound up buying the parts, such as a dozen RCA 6550 tubes, necessary, whereupon Bob built the world's first "super amp". Finally, realistic sound without running out of steam and distorting. Bob was inspired to design and build a transistorized version, which became the Phase Linear 700, which he sold at a reasonable price so that more people could afford them, while still making a decent profit. This "super power amp" was a first in the audio world, and others soon followed.
Bob Carver and I had a laugh over the names of some of these cables; I remarked that the "more Grecian or exotic the name, the higher quality the cable!" Another hail to "clever" marketing, however transparent that obvious "technique" may be.

No matter how many studies have proven the fallacies engendered by subjective belief, vs. objective testing and analysis, the weaknesses inherent in subjective observation will continue to be exploited for gain. This cable fraud is just another example of our culture's homage to greed and profit while sacrificing honor.

I generally buy cable from Blue Jeans in Seattle, mostly because they provide me with custom lengths, in several colors. The shorter the cable, the better (lower resistance) and I really detest drooping cables all over the place. I use a LOT of cables in my extensive system, so the color helps me keep track of which goes where. Blue Jeans does use excellent quality cable, but they freely agree that the industry is full of hype and that the claims that one cable sounds better than another are false and been proven to be false by all the tests that actually use the scientific method of double blind tests. But this "religion" or mythology persists, thanks to perpetuation motivated by profit and one-upmanship.
I think that human psychology demands that the customer who pays $1,000.00 for cables with a mythological name will insist he or she can hear some "improvement" in sound. But how would they fare if they were able to do a double blind test of various cables? Oh, perish that blasphemous thought!! Too many people don't want truth!!! Lies are so much more comforting.

Otherwise, I buy cables from the internet. Defective cables do exist, usually at the RCA connector, which may be loose or poorly soldered or fastened, which really can hurt the audio, and may be the cause of the instance mentioned in this forum.
I want the connectors to be well made and gold plated. I do prefer balances cables, and the connectors are way better than RCA plugs/jacks. I don't buy the cheapest, but the prices that are sane, not borne of hype.

Bob Carver graduated in physics and did some study for a masters, but did not obtain that degree. I studied physics for two years, then changed my major. Physics as a scientific discipline and study includes those principles involved in cables and the transmissions of electricity by cables. Engineering does not include such study, but considers instead the applications of the principles of physics in a practical way. The marketing hype distorts the principles of physics in order to deceive and extract lucre from gullible people who think its "magic". Why should they have to become physicists to learn this stuff? They should be told the truth, and not be ripped off. That excess profit extracted would be WAY better spent on improving their choice of speakers, where you get the most "bang for the buck" and which are the easiest of all the audio components to discern real differences in quality - so easy, in fact, that double blind tests are not necessary to separate the facts from hyperbole.

Cheers,
Dave Ladely
Snohomish, WA

PS Bob Carver recently sold Sunfire, his audio company located in Snohomish, but still advises them and is always busy, he will never retire. Audio has been his passion since he was about 12 years old, his hobby became his career and his life.
DaveLadely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009   #134
Super Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: White Plains, New York
Posts: 1,706
Smile Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLadely View Post
I am not sure what Bob uses right now. Neither of us buys those hyped up cables and we are offended by the false claims for them, which are of the same ilk as some food supplement and cosmetic and "snake oil" con jobs; con artists, including some marketing methods, use the ignorance and trust of potential customers against them in order to sell them on false claims.
I had superb hearing some years back, tested by an audiologist to hear to 22khz, which made me very sensitive to distortion. Bob used my "golden ears" for testing. I was so bothered by distortion by amps when the music was just beginning to sound realistic that I prevailed upon Bob to help me build an amp with at least quadruple the power of the existing McIntosh 275 and Marantz Model 9s. I wound up buying the parts, such as a dozen RCA 6550 tubes, necessary, whereupon Bob built the world's first "super amp". Finally, realistic sound without running out of steam and distorting. Bob was inspired to design and build a transistorized version, which became the Phase Linear 700, which he sold at a reasonable price so that more people could afford them, while still making a decent profit. This "super power amp" was a first in the audio world, and others soon followed.
Bob Carver and I had a laugh over the names of some of these cables; I remarked that the "more Grecian or exotic the name, the higher quality the cable!" Another hail to "clever" marketing, however transparent that obvious "technique" may be.

No matter how many studies have proven the fallacies engendered by subjective belief, vs. objective testing and analysis, the weaknesses inherent in subjective observation will continue to be exploited for gain. This cable fraud is just another example of our culture's homage to greed and profit while sacrificing honor.

I generally buy cable from Blue Jeans in Seattle, mostly because they provide me with custom lengths, in several colors. The shorter the cable, the better (lower resistance) and I really detest drooping cables all over the place. I use a LOT of cables in my extensive system, so the color helps me keep track of which goes where. Blue Jeans does use excellent quality cable, but they freely agree that the industry is full of hype and that the claims that one cable sounds better than another are false and been proven to be false by all the tests that actually use the scientific method of double blind tests. But this "religion" or mythology persists, thanks to perpetuation motivated by profit and one-upmanship.
I think that human psychology demands that the customer who pays $1,000.00 for cables with a mythological name will insist he or she can hear some "improvement" in sound. But how would they fare if they were able to do a double blind test of various cables? Oh, perish that blasphemous thought!! Too many people don't want truth!!! Lies are so much more comforting.

Otherwise, I buy cables from the internet. Defective cables do exist, usually at the RCA connector, which may be loose or poorly soldered or fastened, which really can hurt the audio, and may be the cause of the instance mentioned in this forum.
I want the connectors to be well made and gold plated. I do prefer balances cables, and the connectors are way better than RCA plugs/jacks. I don't buy the cheapest, but the prices that are sane, not borne of hype.

Bob Carver graduated in physics and did some study for a masters, but did not obtain that degree. I studied physics for two years, then changed my major. Physics as a scientific discipline and study includes those principles involved in cables and the transmissions of electricity by cables. Engineering does not include such study, but considers instead the applications of the principles of physics in a practical way. The marketing hype distorts the principles of physics in order to deceive and extract lucre from gullible people who think its "magic". Why should they have to become physicists to learn this stuff? They should be told the truth, and not be ripped off. That excess profit extracted would be WAY better spent on improving their choice of speakers, where you get the most "bang for the buck" and which are the easiest of all the audio components to discern real differences in quality - so easy, in fact, that double blind tests are not necessary to separate the facts from hyperbole.

Cheers,
Dave Ladely
Snohomish, WA

PS Bob Carver recently sold Sunfire, his audio company located in Snohomish, but still advises them and is always busy, he will never retire. Audio has been his passion since he was about 12 years old, his hobby became his career and his life.


I agree with you. As far as Bob goes, I`ve been a fan of his for years. In fact, since the Phase Linaer days when I was deejaying. Most of us, used Dynaco and the classic Crown amps, for sound, durability, and cost. We were very happy.
However, there were a few of us that after seeing and hearing the Phase Linear 700, and all that power, we drooled for that amp.

Bob is an innovator, and a lot of people were jealous of his genius.
deacongreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009   #135
Super Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 105
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

"Its been well demonstrated by double blind tests that no one could tell the difference between cables, including speaker cables. One such test was done by Belden. Another actually used coat hangers and still no one could tell the difference. Home Theater magazine did a double blind test, found that no one could hear any real difference and, when they claimed they could, it was shown that they misidentified the cable anyway. Needless to say, that article was NEVER referred to by any salesperson. But the magazine showed some honor by actually doing an objective testing."

An excellent post. I say this not only because I agree with the sentiments, but because I am a scientist that believes in the validity of the scientific method and double blind testing.

I have been a customer of Blue Jean cables for a while. They provide excellent Belden cables and Canare cables at a very fair price. They also omit the BS, which is incredibly refreshing.

Bob Carver, Siegfried Linkwitz, among others are the people most audiophiles should be looking to for good advice pertaining to sound. Linkwitz has a great site and there are various interviews with Bob Carver that are online and are very interesting and useful.

Greg
gstarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2009   #136
wes
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 714
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

I could not agree more Canare, Mogami, Belden are all outstanding cables very well priced and no BS Did you ever tried Silver Cable??
wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009   #137
Super Member
 
Loves2Watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lost Causes, Mew Nexico
Posts: 153
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

I just have to laugh at all of the cable elitists here.
__________________
Anthem, Conrad Johnson, Dish Network/JVC, Dynaudio, Infinity, Integra, JL Audio, Klipsch, Magnepan, Marantz, Martin Logan, Onkyo, Oppo, Outlaw Audio, Panasonic, Paradigm, REL, Sumiko, SVSound, and Toshiba are the brands equipment I currently use. I have owned/used and tested equipment made by just about any manufacturer you can name.
Loves2Watch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009   #138
wes
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 714
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loves2Watch View Post
I just have to laugh at all of the cable elitists here.
Cable is like politics and religion you have to be a believer
wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Tags
audio, audioquest, cable, cables, cl3, difference, good, improve, inwall, make, quality, sound, speaker, stereo, surround, transparent

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are cables the weak link in your system? JerryDelColliano Cables 38 09-09-2009 01:39 PM
WHO MAKES THE BEST AMP? deacongreg Amplifiers (Mono, Stereo & Multi-Channel) 104 04-08-2008 04:55 PM
Reality vs Video game, can you tell the difference ? TheMoose Off-Topic Posts 5 10-27-2007 10:48 AM
NuVo Introduces Its New Essentia Whole Home Audio System AVRevForum.com Home Automation 1 10-18-2007 09:33 AM
What makes your idea subwoofer? kennyt Subwoofers 6 08-31-2007 05:08 AM




SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1