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Cables It's all about connections. Discuss everything about audio cables ranging from balanced to unbalanced, speaker cables to interconnects and beyond.

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Old 01-13-2009   #127
jbk
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

I've responded to this thread before and would like to say that expensive cables(one's that cost thousands and tens of thousands of dollars) probably aren't worth the money.

Cables maybe the most over hyped piece of equipment in the audio industry.

I've tried various brands of cables in my system and some home made cables. For the most part the home made cables were as good as the branded cables that I tried.

Many people go to a hi end store and the sales person uses some psychology on them during the selling and demo process. Suggesting that he hears this or that and the customer(s) won't admit that they don't hear what the sales person is hearing. I guess you could call that the golden ears syndrome.

For the most part, I liked the Canare wire in my system for my speakers.

For interconnects, I never noticed much difference between balance cables in my system.

But I have noticed differences in unbalanced cables. I finally settled on a little know brand of cables made by Chimera Labs.
They are neutral/uncolored that is they just convey the signal from each piece of the components.

A friend bought a new set of speakers for his system and we both thought the system was lacking something. The music was good but uninvolving. So I brought a pair of my interconnects to his house and I installed them between preamp and amplifier.

The system completely opened up. Now he has converted all his interconnects and is very happy.

So in summary:

Don't get sucked into a sale person using psychology on you to hear what a cable is doing.

A cable shouldn't do anything. Like a good Doctor, a cable should do not harm.

And, price is not a good indicator of quality or performance

Trust your ears and take the cables home to listen to them in you r system.

John
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Old 01-13-2009   #128
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Amen to the Canare's I have been using them for years, I remember my first exotic? cables were Mogami coax in 1975? suggested by a real engineer not a sales person. They were a major change from the 18 ga. zip I was using at the time. If you're gonna spend a few G's get an exotic watch it will be worth more in the long run............
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Old 01-14-2009   #129
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Talking Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRevForum.com View Post
Do you think cables make a difference in the quality of the audio in your system? Do you think you could tell the difference in a blind A/B test?
Its been well demonstrated by double blind tests that no one could tell the difference between cables, including speaker cables. One such test was done by Belden. Another actually used coat hangers and still no one could tell the difference. Home Theater magazine did a double blind test, found that no one could hear any real difference and, when they claimed they could, it was shown that they misidentified the cable anyway. Needless to say, that article was NEVER referred to by any salesperson. But the magazine showed some honor by actually doing an objective testing.
There is a good REASON why double blind tests are necessary and are ALWAY used in proper scientific testing for the very purpose of eliminating bias and the dangers of subjective thinking. Whether it is some medical snake oil or sales people wanting to sell a high profit item (they are the culprits who spread the 10%-15% "rule" for blowing your hard earned money on cables that make no difference instead of advising spending the money on better speakers, etc, and customers think they are in the know and parrot them. I know, I sold high end audio for decades) or just a person who, listening, can convince themselves that they can hear a "difference". Some get pretty carried away, declaring all the nuances they say they hear, but when they are faced with double blind testing, they can't tell one from another.
I think subjective thinking is pretty well known to be a method whereby perfectly serious people fool themselves. Just consider the snake oil claims that have existed for many decades, but still work on the non analytical, ignorant, and gullible members of the population.
And the "scientific" claims for analogue signals to justify ripping naive customers off only apply to gigahertz signals. Audio signals are thousands of times lower as are video signals. And digital either is on or off, but playing on the ignorance of the public is a national pastime to separate a gullible customer from their money.
The audio industry simply found a way to get a customer to buy a very profitable product, much as they push extended warrantees. Some sales people may really believe the BS, but they have never done the double blind testing and would probably be intimidated by such testing, not wanting to be shown they have not only been misleading their customers, they have been conning themselves.
I have been in high end audio since 1965, when I lived with Bob Carver. He and I designed the first super amp, the Phase Linear 700, which hugely changed the audio world regarding power. Recently we both had a laugh about the claims about cables and how easy it is to fool people and how easily they can completely fool themselves. i dare anyone who makes subjective claims to undergo a TRUE double blind testing. Even the suggestion undermines their false confidence!
I consider the claims of cable superiority by manufacturers and salespeople for the sake of conning trusting customers to arbitrarily pay high prices for cables to be a form of fraud, which the double blind testing exposes.
The very best place to put money is in speakers, so save money by refusing to be dupes, then put that 10%-15% phony "rule of thumb" into better speakers!! Any honest salesperson will back me up!! We all should be experienced in the techniques of con-artists after the last US administration. Did Cheney ever tell the truth - as he "ordered" Americans to believe his assertions. Too many people merely assert things, and may believe themselves, but they sure avoid any possibility of having their assertions put under any valid test or analysis.
Cheers
Dave Ladely, Snohomish , WA
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Old 01-15-2009   #130
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Dave,

What cables, (speaker and interconnects), do you use? and, if known, what cables does Bob Carver use?

mark
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Old 01-15-2009   #131
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

This has always been a tough area for me. Too many cables, too many manufacturers with crazy claims. I`m sure, like everything else, there are some that provide better quality, connection, sound, durability.
The question for me is, how much more? For me, after a while,, the law of diminishing returns kick in!!
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Old 01-15-2009   #132
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Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk View Post
I've responded to this thread before and would like to say that expensive cables(one's that cost thousands and tens of thousands of dollars) probably aren't worth the money.

Cables maybe the most over hyped piece of equipment in the audio industry.

I've tried various brands of cables in my system and some home made cables. For the most part the home made cables were as good as the branded cables that I tried.

Many people go to a hi end store and the sales person uses some psychology on them during the selling and demo process. Suggesting that he hears this or that and the customer(s) won't admit that they don't hear what the sales person is hearing. I guess you could call that the golden ears syndrome.

For the most part, I liked the Canare wire in my system for my speakers.

For interconnects, I never noticed much difference between balance cables in my system.

But I have noticed differences in unbalanced cables. I finally settled on a little know brand of cables made by Chimera Labs.
They are neutral/uncolored that is they just convey the signal from each piece of the components.

A friend bought a new set of speakers for his system and we both thought the system was lacking something. The music was good but uninvolving. So I brought a pair of my interconnects to his house and I installed them between preamp and amplifier.

The system completely opened up. Now he has converted all his interconnects and is very happy.

So in summary:

Don't get sucked into a sale person using psychology on you to hear what a cable is doing.

A cable shouldn't do anything. Like a good Doctor, a cable should do not harm.

And, price is not a good indicator of quality or performance

Trust your ears and take the cables home to listen to them in you r system.

John


Well, there it is. I just said, that I`m sure there are some out there that work, make a difference, and also do not break your financial budget.
Thanks, for sending your excellent experience. Hopefully the rest of us, can have the same.
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