Audio Video Revolution Forum  

Go Back   Audio Video Revolution Forum > Audio-Video Electronics > Cables

Cables It's all about connections. Discuss everything about audio cables ranging from balanced to unbalanced, speaker cables to interconnects and beyond.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2008   #109
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 54
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

I didn't believe in the difference cables could make until I bought some "hi-end" speaker cables for my cousins studio 20's to replace his 20yr old monster cables. I called him up several days later and asked him if he had installed them and I asked him what he listened to. he said that he installed them and he listened to a Muddy Waters CD. He told my the difference was amazing to what he had heard before. This is coming from someone who is nowhere near into HT or audiophile systems.
rolexdaytona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2008   #110
wes
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 714
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyt View Post
I agree it was as good as a component upgrade, and this is why I refer to cables as components. Good cables make a huge difference in a good system, and even lessor systems, though depending on the system, you might be better off buying better gear than maxing out cables......
What do you think of Silver cables?
wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008   #111
Super Member
 
Loves2Watch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lost Causes, Mew Nexico
Posts: 153
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

It's been scientifically proven a thousand times over that there is no difference. Believe all the snake oil salesmen and smoke and mirrors (placebo effect) all you want and I'll just laugh as I keep my hard earned money and use it for equipment that does in fact make a difference.
__________________
Anthem, Conrad Johnson, Dish Network/JVC, Dynaudio, Infinity, Integra, JL Audio, Klipsch, Magnepan, Marantz, Martin Logan, Onkyo, Oppo, Outlaw Audio, Panasonic, Paradigm, REL, Sumiko, SVSound, and Toshiba are the brands equipment I currently use. I have owned/used and tested equipment made by just about any manufacturer you can name.
Loves2Watch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008   #112
Super Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 938
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loves2Watch View Post
It's been scientifically proven a thousand times over that there is no difference. Believe all the snake oil salesmen and smoke and mirrors (placebo effect) all you want and I'll just laugh as I keep my hard earned money and use it for equipment that does in fact make a difference.

For someone who claims they have tested all the equipment you claim to have tested... I find this claim hard to understand.

As someone who actually HAS been involved with tons of testing, it has been scientifically proven there IS a difference between cables. What is argued is whether or not it causes an audible difference to the human ear. Our current tests (soon to be finalized and our findings published) show there is definitely a difference.

So for all the double blind tests I have been part of one thing is clear: there IS a difference in sound. Most tests I have overseen have shown without a doubt there is a difference. What most of the cable companies don't want people to hear is that the more expensive cables have never in any test I've been a part of that used random listeners (non-audiophiles)have they ever been selected as the best sounding cable (in double blind tests, in the placebo/psyche tests they always win). Neither has cheap lamp wire been chosen as the best either. So far our tests have used over 1200 people.

We've tested everything in multiple different ways. We even had a test where we told them that they would only be hearing 5 cables, and gave them the names and prices of the cables. We also told them when they were hearing each cable. Over 65% picked the most expensive cable as the best sounding cable. The problem? We never changed cables, it was always a cheap AudioQuest cable. Half the test group was NOT told what cable they were hearing or what brands or prices. That group showed that no one group of cables received better than 34%. Again it was all the same cable. The test group that wasn't given names/prices complained they couldn't hear much of a difference and over 70% claimed to randomly pick a cable (in the test it was cable a, b, c, d, e-- and c won).

We think we've proven that the Placebo Effect in the audio cable industry is very real. It also appears to be just as real as the Placebo Effect for speakers, amps, and processors. We ran tests on each, where we never changed speakers, amps, and processors. The same test just different categories. The test results were about 4% different either way (high was 71% picking the best "speaker," and the low was 63% on best "processor.") The people only told A, B, C, D, and E again chose C in every test (this isn't a surprise).

We're about 60% through our testing, and when we're done and publish our findings we're rather sure the Audio industry will not be happy. We've basically proven already (and more tests just keeps justifying our findings) that "psychology," is a bigger factor in sound quality than anything else. However in the totally blind tests we've also proven that Martin Logan likely makes the best sounding speaker in the world followed by Magnepan. We've also proven that expensive isn't better. The Wilsons used for the test have won in less than 15% of test groups (and overall less than 5% preferred it overall) vs speakers in the $2k to $10k range. Mark Levinson amps, Meridian amps, etc. haven't faired well at all. In fact I think it's safe to say the NAD Master Series amp may well be the best in the world. Bel Canto did extremely well in the tests as well.

Interestingly without a doubt we believe we've proven that electrostatic and planar based speaker types are better at producing sound the human ear likes.

For cables we've found that weirdly a company named Kubala Sosna appears to have a sound that nearly 40% of all test subjects have leaned to. Not so surprisingly (at least from all the tests we've done) the mid-priced Sosnas are preferred (just over 2/3rds chose the mid-priced). Of all the tests, this is the craziest and highest leaning of any category type. The Martin Logan Vantage received more leanings than any other speaker and that was only around 19% for an example (The Summit the more expensive ML was 12%, while the Magnepan 3.6 was preferred by 14%) and the NAD Master Series amp was 21%.

There are so many interesting things about these tests. We've brought some of the original subjects back in, and started combining "the best of," and re-doing tests for each category using the gear chosen previously as the best. So we use Kubala Sosna cables, NAD Amp, Arcam pre-pro for testing speakers for instance. With that gear the numbers of our top 5 speaker preferences went up. So we've had some real interesting tests going on.

So for all of you wondering why I don't post much, it's because I got involved in these tests.
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008   #113
wes
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 714
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
So for all of you wondering why I don't post much, it's because I got involved in these tests.
Yes psychology plays a role, can you post all the equipment you tested and ratings!
wes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008   #114
Super Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 938
Default Re: How much difference do you think cables makes in the audio quality of your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by wes View Post
Yes psychology plays a role, can you post all the equipment you tested and ratings!
The tests have been going on for a year now and are still on going.

However Audio Cables:

Transparent, Kimber, Nordost, Kubala Sosna, Monster, AudioQuest, Generic Home Depot wire, Acoustic Zen, Blue Jeans, and Vampire just to name some of them. Over 200 cables were tested.

Basically our findings are that good 12 gauge cable from each manufacturer is practically indistinguishable from their other lines. For instance there is no audible difference from one set of Transparent Cables and another. The only manufacturer that had a higher line chosen over their cheapest was Kubala Sosna and again the lean towards that Brand was the most interesting part of the test. All other brands were about the same, without people claiming one over the other. The only exception was the cheap lamp cord, which wasn't even 12 AWG (and thus the reason it didn't sound good).

Some of our test Home Depot wire actually changed color! It was a clear insulator, and the wire started to corrode and turn green. So instead of the bronze look, it had a green look.

Cables are not all created equal. Some are better than others, but again if it's a wire with less than 5% resistance of the speaker's nominal impedance you have an indistinguishable wire. With the loan exception being Kubala Sosna in our tests. We can't tell you why people chose that Brand the most or so often. I can say that over 90% who seleceted Kubala over another gave the response difference as "subtle."

So basically if you're looking for a good wire it does pay to spend a little extra and buy a good cable. Why? Because you have a better chance of getting a good 12 AWG run of cable with better insulation and less chance of copper corrosion. Still it doesn't mean you should spend more on a higher line from a decent brand. There IS a difference. There is however no reason to spend stupid money on it unless you just like spending money.

Interestingly our tests with "salesmen," describing what people should be hearing from cable A vs B vs C vs D vs E, showed that people are easily lead down a path. Again there was no difference between cables for that test. However more than 50% went with the "salesman."

I'll post about speakers, amps, and pre-amps, in another thread in their respective forums. No real point in going through the speaker cable data as if it wasn't Kubala Sosna there were just as many who chose Monster's cheap cable vs say Transparent's most expensive (that we tested).
Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply


Tags
audio, audioquest, cable, cables, cl3, difference, good, improve, inwall, make, quality, sound, speaker, stereo, surround, transparent

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are cables the weak link in your system? JerryDelColliano Cables 38 09-09-2009 01:39 PM
WHO MAKES THE BEST AMP? deacongreg Amplifiers (Mono, Stereo & Multi-Channel) 104 04-08-2008 04:55 PM
Reality vs Video game, can you tell the difference ? TheMoose Off-Topic Posts 5 10-27-2007 10:48 AM
NuVo Introduces Its New Essentia Whole Home Audio System AVRevForum.com Home Automation 1 10-18-2007 09:33 AM
What makes your idea subwoofer? kennyt Subwoofers 6 08-31-2007 05:08 AM




SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1