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Old 05-15-2011   #49
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Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Captain Stereo,

Your reply is what I have been listening during years, the easy way out: "If you're not able to hear the difference does not mean that it's not there"... "If you're a deaf is not a fault of players", etc, etc. Who prejudge the other to justify its own “dogmas” and “subjectivities”, is the one who has less objective ability to discover the differences in the quality of the sound between equipment, players, amplifiers, pre, etc.

1st) I never said that I don´t heard difference between players, and that by the way already we have tested.

2nd) I've said that if YOU are able to hear differences and identify it in a seriuos blind test, I would give you an Ayre DX-5…

3rd) Your reply confirms what I supposed.

4rd) What is under discussion is whether actually in terms of audio quality, justified pay more 9,000 (Ayre) or 3,000 (Lexicon)
respect an OPPO BDP 83SE or BDP95.

5th) You think being a great specialist in audio is to compare quality of products proportional to its price. And that's why you underestimate to anyone who believes that cannot be justified the 9,000 difference between these players….

6th) After all, eventually I prefer some deafness and not a net stupidity.

7Th) Chao…...
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Old 05-15-2011   #50
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Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

If one's able to hear difference and someone else unable to do it, this inability doesn't disqualify the ability of the former the hear these differences.

To use as an argument a test that as benne proven many times as beeing flaw, is a flaw argument.

What justify how much own is willing to pay concern only that person and nobody else ( except maybe his spouse).

Personaly I cannont understand why someone would want to pay 30000$ for a car if he can a one for less than 20000$.
However, I can easyly understand someone spending 30000 for a sound system, since I have the same passion.

Someone who don'T understand that later way of spending my money, might not be as passionate as I am. He might in fact not be passionate at all about audio.

If your passion is somewhere else, watching tv, buying tickets to watch great football ( soccer) teams ( you're from Argentina) and are quite happy listening to some sound system bought at a place like walmart. Be happy stick with your passion and let passionated audiophile be happy with their own.
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Old 05-15-2011   #51
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Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Who does not see and feel the difference between a 30,000 car respect one of 10,000, probably suffers from blindness and never drive a car surely…
Really there is no worse blind to anyone who does not interpret what he read.
My passion about audio consists on listening the sounds of music more closely possible to the original, not because of the higher price of the components, when really not justify a great investment. I prefer to invest in what really worth improve, or even musical recordings.
As regard to catalog the knowledge according to their nature is another prejudice which reveals certain arguments when it’s scarce.
But also is true, in Argentina there are some people who buy things happy by it higher prices, exactly equal than USA and all around the world…..
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Old 05-15-2011   #52
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Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinger View Post
Captain Stereo,

Your reply is what I have been listening during years, the easy way out: "If you're not able to hear the difference does not mean that it's not there"... "If you're a deaf is not a fault of players", etc, etc. Who prejudge the other to justify its own “dogmas” and “subjectivities”, is the one who has less objective ability to discover the differences in the quality of the sound between equipment, players, amplifiers, pre, etc.

1st) I never said that I don´t heard difference between players, and that by the way already we have tested.

2nd) I've said that if YOU are able to hear differences and identify it in a seriuos blind test, I would give you an Ayre DX-5…

3rd) Your reply confirms what I supposed.

4rd) What is under discussion is whether actually in terms of audio quality, justified pay more 9,000 (Ayre) or 3,000 (Lexicon)
respect an OPPO BDP 83SE or BDP95.

5th) You think being a great specialist in audio is to compare quality of products proportional to its price. And that's why you underestimate to anyone who believes that cannot be justified the 9,000 difference between these players….

6th) After all, eventually I prefer some deafness and not a net stupidity.

7Th) Chao…...
Who cares what you think something is worth? People who ask if this is worth a zillion more than that? They don't have the zillion to spend. That's why they get Camaros and put big tires on them instead of getting Aston Martin's or M series BMWs, or AMG Mercedes. Is a Vanquish worth $240,000 more than a Camaro? It's a fundamentally stupid question. Yes, it's a lot better. And if you have the money to do it and APPRECIATE the difference, then you get it. Boohoo, if you create some mythical scale that judges the percentage better something is, and then expect the pricing to exactly reflect that? You're an idiot. It's not up to you or me to judge for someone else what they spend on things they judge to be better and "worth" it. So is a DX-5 better than a BDP-83/93? Of course it is (and yes, "stinger" I've done a blind test. total no brainer difference). Is it $9,000 better? Dumb effing question. If you've got the income to get a $10,000 universal player and it's obvious to you the DX-5 is better, then you'd be an idiot NOT to get it. Otherwise, you're getting a lesser player (still a darn good one) all because of some holier than thou value judgment scale you've manufactured. Who loses? You do. Because a better player you as a wealthy dude can afford is there to be had, but you're getting something less than, why? Oh, because you're "stinger" and anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot. So go calling people names, go get your mass market hi-fi, you're probably a cable hater too I would guess so go off on that, and live miserably ever after.

EDIT: Everybody knows that the Lexicon truly is an Oppo rebadge. They make it harder for companies like Ayre who really do meaningfully improve the product to gain traction. Lexicon should give all their customers a $2,000ish rebate (the aluminum machining counts for something).

EDIT 2: And "stinger" I'd take you up on your offer for you yourself to conduct the blind test, but I fear you're an angry crazy person, so I'll live with the 'stingers' you send my way and try to live on somehow...having said that, I work in a shop where right this very second, we have both a DX-5 and a BDP-93 (yes, Oppo does sell in some high-end specialty shops. Same price as on website). There's no comparison. Both are good. Ayre way better. Unsurprisingly. You may take my word for it and give me a DX-5 if you wish. I'll even give you a deal on it for your leap of faith.

Last edited by Captain Stereo; 05-15-2011 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 05-15-2011   #53
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Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Captain Stereo, please, tomorrow or next week, when your anger go away, read what you wrote and what I have written, and if you have enough grey matter will understand your contradictions.

I am dedicated to the audio (stereo only) for 25 years. Thanks to my occupation I've lucky enough to test formidable audio systems, and I chose the best equipment for me , not for the price (higher or lower) but for my pleasure to feel the sound .

With people as, or more, knowledgeable than me, because we are dealers of equipment high end at request, we have had the chance to try ones the best and most varied amps, preamp, DAC´s, players, mechanical transport, etc.... BAT, Krell, Marc Levinson, McIntosh, Nagra, Gryphon, Esoteric, Cary Audio, Ayre Acoustic, CEC, Audio Research, T+A, AudioLabs, Boulder, darTZeel....among many other brands that you couldn’t afford even to test.... then captain stereo, does not give me a class of what really is true in audio.

Finally, I never have commitment to sell and justify the price of a particular brand, simply I advise listening before spend money.

By the way you have lost, it is not necessary to pass by a blind listening audio test.

Good luck and my best regards.
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Old 05-15-2011   #54
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Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinger View Post
Captain Stereo, please, tomorrow or next week, when your anger go away, read what you wrote and what I have written, and if you have enough grey matter will understand your contradictions.

I am dedicated to the audio (stereo only) for 25 years. Thanks to my occupation I've lucky enough to test formidable audio systems, and I chose the best equipment for me , not for the price (higher or lower) but for my pleasure to feel the sound .

With people as, or more, knowledgeable than me, because we are dealers of equipment high end at request, we have had the chance to try ones the best and most varied amps, preamp, DAC´s, players, mechanical transport, etc.... BAT, Krell, Marc Levinson, McIntosh, Nagra, Gryphon, Esoteric, Cary Audio, Ayre Acoustic, CEC, Audio Research, T+A, AudioLabs, Boulder, darTZeel....among many other brands that you couldn’t afford even to test.... then captain stereo, does not give me a class of what really is true in audio.

Finally, I never have commitment to sell and justify the price of a particular brand, simply I advise listening before spend money.

By the way you have lost, it is not necessary to pass by a blind listening audio test.

Good luck and my best regards.
Good for you. In your twenty-five years, you should have learned not to make value judgments for people. You don't have to justify anything. You didn't build the gear. You're selling it. And if you've done your homework and sell reputable brands, then you have to trust that their pricing is fair for the market. If you don't think it's fair, then shame on you for acting against your principles to make a buck, and I'd also guess your sales history will show poor performance with those type of products. You also probably have plenty of customers whose lives might have been enhanced with a better system, which you "saved" them from with your value judgments.
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