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Old 01-10-2010   #13
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 23
Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Here is yet another rebadged oppo player that is selling for far more then what oppo charges for it. Ayre admits to changing nothing in the digital, HDMI, and video processing department so it is nothing more then a "snake oil" mod. With the new OPPO BDP-83 SE this ayre player is using the old DAC's and not the new ESS DAC's so you are paying $10,000 for less.

Then again one just has to look at ayre's past source units to realize it is all snake oil.

Ayre CX-7eMP

The fake "me" has simply posted photos of the Oppo player, that's all. The Ayre player isn't out yet, should be soon,
ahd the fake "me" cetainly couldn't get ahold of the upcoming Ayre player and open it up.

Charles Hansen and Ayre have used the Oppo as a basis but have made a lotta changes to it. See this thread over at AVS where Charles openly discusses all the revisions:
Steve Bruzonsky
The Real Not The Fake One
stevenjbruzonsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2010   #14
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Sorry steve but the top player is that of the ayre.

Originally Posted by Captain Stereo
On the contrary, I'm happy to be proven wrong if the point is legit. And to say something as foolish as Oppo being a better analog player than the Ayre is simply ridiculous, to the point that I'm surprised you were able to type it without the bullsh*t alert going off full blast in your head. Of course, since you will NEVER, EVER test this yourself, you will rely on looking at some spec sheet and act as if that tells you all you need to know. So before you give me some engineering B.S. about that being all you need to know, can you explain why EVERY SINGLE AUDIO VIDEO manufacturer look at and listen to their products AFTER they have been designed and engineered? The hell you say!?! Yes, it's true. And it's because there are sonic differences between parts that share the same or similar specification. Add up a few dozen parts that all make a sonic difference but that measure the same, and you have a reason for all the variable amongst similarly spec'd products.

But you're a doubter and always will be, so ignorance is bliss. Enjoy yourself there.
As pointed out when used as a digital source "HDMI connection" it will be 100% the same as the oppo since they admit and do not have the ability to "tweak" anything about the video/audio side. So then lets look at the 2CH analog section that you for some reason rave about in the ayre but have provided no information on why. The new oppo SE version is running a 4 32 bit DAC's per channel for 2CH operation, the ayre does not come close to that.
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Old 01-12-2010   #15
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Even at that how can you possibly defend the past ayre source units? They are empty boxes of snake oil.
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Old 01-16-2010   #16
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 5
Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

What the fake Steve fails to show is the internals of the ACTUAL Oppo vs the internals of the Ayre.


And the Ayre

Most of the bit on the right under the 'shield' is the USB DAC.. which is an improved version of their QB-9 and features a new input processor that will handle High Speed USB 2.0 Class 2 Audio (at least with Mac's OS X) so you can play back up to 192 kHz files.

Clearly they are exactly the same *rolls eyes*

and from Charles Hansen on what they take from the Oppo and what they leave out and what they change.

"Then to make it an Ayre, we dismantle it completely and recycle everything except the main PCB (with the video decoder, ABT scaler chip, and HDMI transmitter), the transport mechanism, the VFD display, and the remote control handset.

Next we re-build the main PCB. The big switching power supply only provides 5 VDC, then there are little mini-switching power supplies (called DC-DC converters) on the main PCB that turn the 5 VDC into 1.0 VDC, 1.1 VDC, 1.8 VDC, and 3.3 VDC. All of those are removed. There are also USB power switches that allow hot-plugging of USB devices. These are removed as they have another kind of DC-DC converter called a "charge pump".

All of the supplies are replaced with pure linear supplies with analog regulators. The USB power switches are replaced with devices without the charge pumps. Now we have gotten rid of seven noise sources that create high-frequency square waves with harmonics well out into the MHz region. Getting rid of all of that noise creates a visibly cleaner picture.

Next, we replace the low-quality master video clock with a VCXO. This becomes more important later on, as you will see.

Now we start adding things back in. First is our AyreLink communication system. It allows AyreLink equipped components to act as one big system. For example, turning on the player will turn on all of the downstream components as well as automatically select the correct input on the preamp. We also make an external RS-232 to AyreLink converter box for system controllers like Crestrons. The AyreLink system has opto-isolators between each component to avoid unwanted ground loops, which is why we don't use RS-232 inputs on any of our equipment.

Then we add a custom programmed FPGA on the front panel PCB to do some housekeeping. It intercepts the appropriate commands and translates them to operate the AyreLink system. It disables the internal volume control (which operates in the digital domain and degrades the sound) and instead routes the volume changes to an AyreLink equipped preamp. It also allows us to send custom messages to the front panel VFD display. So when the USB audio input is activated, it will report that on the front panel along with the sample rate of the received signal.

There are a bunch of boards added on the audio side. I say "side" because we literally split the player into two parts. There is a separate power transformer that runs all of the audio circuitry, which is separated from the video side by a bank of opto-isolators. So the audio and video "sides" have separate grounds that are completely galvanically isolated. This is the only way to get the best performance from either your audio system or your video system.

All video displays have switching power supplies that dump noise into your system in the absence of such isolation. There are also ground loops that are inevitably formed as there is no such thing as a balanced video connection. All of those problems go away with our isolation system.

The ten-channel audio board is replaced by a two-channel audio board. Everything on this board is top-quality, with discrete, fully balanced, zero-feedback audio circuitry and discrete, zero-feedback power supply regulators. There are improvements in both the parts quality and circuit design that give it even higher performance than the QB-9 USB DAC that was recently rated "Class A+" in Stereophile's recommended components issue. For two-channel disc playback (CD, SACD, DVD-Audio), the performance exceeds our $6,000 audio-only disc player.

We also add the USB audio input that allows you to connect your personal computer and turn your system into a music server. Your entire digital library (except SACD's, thank you very much Sony -- not!) can be stored on a hard drive and played back with the click of a mouse. So this one component can be the only source component that you need. This input is also connected via a bank of opto-isolators, so there is actually a *third* "side" to the system -- the video, the audio, and the computer. The noise from your computer and its switching power supply will not be connected to either your video or audio systems.

We also add a second audio-only HDMI connector. This is fed by the isolated signals on the audio "side" so that it won't contaminate your surround-sound system if you choose to connect one. It also supports the new "Audio Rate Control" (ARC) feature that is part of the HDMI 1.3a specifcation. This is a breakthrough for the surround-sound enthusiast, as HDMI is normally the worst way in the world to send audio data -- the jitter is even worse than the lowly S/PDIF connection.

But with ARC, the surround-sound processor uses a local crystal oscillator to provide a low-jitter clock to the DAC chips. Then there is a buffer that stores the incoming audio data. When the buffer is too full it sends a signal back upstream to the Blu-Ray player telling it to slow down the disc slightly. When the buffer is too empty, it asks the disc to speed up slightly. Now the audio clock is in charge, the way that it should be. (When the unit is running in two-channel mode, the local low-jitter, fixed-frequency crystal oscillator provides the master audio clock.)

With a modern digital display (plasma, LCD, LCOS, DLP, et cetera) jitter on the video signal does not matter. Since there is no conversion to analog, the digital signal values are simply stored in a frame buffer until needed.

Then the whole thing is put into a custom chassis made entirely from anodized aluminum and stainless steel. We want our products to look just as good 50 years from now as they do today. There are other people making Oppo "clones". One of them only replaces the chassis. Another replaces the power supply also. Nobody is rebuilding the complete player and adding the extra features and advanced technology that Ayre is."

If you really want to bitch about people cloning the Oppo then bitch about Lexicon... who literally put the oppo, chassis and all, inside their own chassis, slapped a THX certification and a 3500$ price tag.
AD Wiegert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010   #17
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

Sorry but with the audiohilics findings about the lexicon rebadge I think this will affect the ayre. The ayre so far has taken no steps to have their player benchmarked to see what it does and does not do. The power supply is irrelevant and we have seen this in the past, the high end has something negative about switching power supplies. And with the ayre DAC crammed into the oppo chassis it is still not as good as the oppo SE's DAC's. The ayre does not use the new 32 bit DAC's!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010   #18
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Default Re: Ayre DX-5 at $10,000 is a rebadged $500 OPPO.

One last time for the people who can not understand, when using the ayre as a HDMI source there will be 0 differance in the audio or video.
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