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Old 02-25-2008   #25
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Default Re: Oppo to build Blu-Ray player

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I will make an argument here. Benes on avs captures the exact video bit rate on bluray titles. 24 mbps AVC seems to be the magic number. HDDVD is capable of this as well.
When I consider a BD (or HD DVD) player's performance characteristics I'm talking about HDMI for digital audio and HDMI for digital video since that represents the ideal connection strategy which most AV enthusiats are embracing or moving towards. Naturally there will be consumers who lack HDMI on one device or another, and for them they certainly will care about analog performance or SPDIF performance. Those consumers should indeed investigate to find a player that performs up to their expectations via non-HDMI interfaces. But for most HT-enthusiast consumers, they either have HDMI for AV or they *will* have HDMI for AV... so the HDMI performance is the main concern.


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Huh????!!!! Analog conversion does impact the HDMI user. The thing I have a problem with is people that think you actually listen to 0's and 1's. HDMI must undergo digital to ANALOG conversion either at the BD player throught its processor the passed through the analog outs
HDMI is a pure digital conection for both audio and digital signals. In regards to audio, all analog conversion is handled by the recevier. In regards to video, all analog conversion would be handled by the projector or display. This is why the analog conversion quality of the BD/HD DVD player is irrelevent if you use HDMI as your means of getting audio to the receiver... the receiver is handling all the d/a conversion for your sound using the HDMI connection (just like the receiver handles the d/a conversion for your coax/toslink digital connection).

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Wow. You sure love hyperbole. You're incredibly misinformed. Every independent test does not have those results. The ones you like may, but not every one.

It performs rather well in tests. In actual use it performs dismally. A device is the sum of all parts and not the capability of doing well in certain tests. A movie is not a test screen or test clip. It's a combination of many things.
A player that does well on tests, but not actual video content? First time I've heard that one... but for argument's sake I won't dismiss your assertions...


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Blind tests where actual people get to look at the PQ and SQ and blindly say "that is better," have generally shown the PS3 to come in last.
Can you point me to some of these articles/reviews? As I said earlier, all the reviews I had read ranked the PS3 very highly. I stopped reading reviews of players after I purchased my player last November so if things have changed since then I'd like to know. Certainly, if other players are out-performing the image and sound quality I'm getting with the PS3 over HDMI currently in my AV system then that would be impressive indeed...

Last edited by DaViD Boulet; 02-25-2008 at 06:52 AM..
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Old 02-25-2008   #26
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Default Re: Oppo to build Blu-Ray player

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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post
But for most HT-enthusiast consumers, they either have HDMI for AV or they *will* have HDMI for AV... so the HDMI performance is the main concern.
Less than .05% of HDTV owners have an HDMI 1.3 Receiver or Pre-Pro. "Most," almost certainly in this case rely on other means for their "lossless," sound. Less than 5% of HDM owners have HDMI 1.3 capable receivers too.

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HDMI is a pure digital conection for both audio and digital signals. In regards to audio, all analog conversion is handled by the recevier.
Wrong again. Many more people do have HDMI 1 to 1.2 capable Receivers. The PLAYER does the analog conversion and sends the data through the HDMI cable as LPCM. This is the majority of the market.

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A player that does well on tests, but not actual video content? First time I've heard that one... but for argument's sake I won't dismiss your assertions...
It's a sum of all parts. It is one thing to provide excellent results on a test screen it's another for a movie picture with the combination of all.

I'm not going to hunt down reviews for you. You're the one who made the claim that EVERY test done had the PS3 as one of the top players.
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Old 02-25-2008   #27
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Default Re: Oppo to build Blu-Ray player

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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post
In regards to video, all analog conversion would be handled by the projector or display.
Do you even know how a BD player works?

If you were right (which you're not) then it wouldn't matter what BD player you had. All Video and Audio would be treated the exact same with no quality differences at all.
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Old 02-25-2008   #28
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Default Re: Oppo to build Blu-Ray player

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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post
HDMI is a pure digital conection for both audio and digital signals. In regards to audio, all analog conversion is handled by the recevier. In regards to video, all analog conversion would be handled by the projector or display. This is why the analog conversion quality of the BD/HD DVD player is irrelevent if you use HDMI as your means of getting audio to the receiver... the receiver is handling all the d/a conversion for your sound using the HDMI connection (just like the receiver handles the d/a conversion for your coax/toslink digital connection).
Ok, I was just seeing if you understood what I was saying. So you agree that ultimately its the d/a conversion because ultimately - what we hear is analog. (the d/a conversion of the player only matters if you are using it as the processor -TrueHD,LPCM,DTS Mater - and going analog out to the receivers multi channel inputs)

Last edited by prerich; 02-26-2008 at 02:03 PM..
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Old 02-25-2008   #29
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Default Re: Oppo to build Blu-Ray player

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
I don't think the slow load up times can be overcome anytime soon. It would push costs of the units up. However a High End Krell, Meridian, etc. could likely make a unit that would truly eliminate this problem because they can afford the more expensive processing chips.

I'd pay $6k for a BD 2.0 player that was a tank and performed like a world class unit should.

I think Halcro's real decision to not make a next gen player was that there wasn't a winner. Now there is. So there is little reason for anyone to hold back.

I know Arcam put their BD R&D into overdrive with the recent BD winning news.
That is good to hear about Arcam. Because they will make a great player at a price range for most audiophiles. And I agree, Meridian and the big boys should be able to make a player perform like it should. Certainly the pressure is on.

But, the big boys need to catch in the HDMI connectivity area with their pre/pros first. Outside of the Integra DTC 9.8, we are limited in that area. So before they work on a new Blu-Ray player, we need somewhere to connect it. Don`t you think!!!
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Old 02-25-2008   #30
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Default Re: Oppo to build Blu-Ray player

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Originally Posted by deacongreg View Post
That is good to hear about Arcam. Because they will make a great player at a price range for most audiophiles. And I agree, Meridian and the big boys should be able to make a player perform like it should. Certainly the pressure is on.

But, the big boys need to catch in the HDMI connectivity area with their pre/pros first. Outside of the Integra DTC 9.8, we are limited in that area. So before they work on a new Blu-Ray player, we need somewhere to connect it. Don`t you think!!!
Arcam will have new Receivers and a new inexpensive Pre-Pro based on the new Receivers at the end of the summer all at the same time as their BD player.

At that time the NAD units will have their NextGen Audio Board available for their receivers and pre-pro (their new units are modular!).

Plus B&K is going to have their new Receiver out this Summer. So an American built Audiophile unit will be available.
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