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Old 12-05-2007   #1
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Default Genus, Species and the Playstation 3

What exactly is the PS3? What is it marketed as? I believe that's part of its problem.

1. Its marketed as a Blu-ray player - so every playstation bought is counted as a blu-ray player - how many are used for movies and how many are used for something else? This makes it difficult to tell who's really winning this "war". What would it look like if the xbox 360 would have included an HD-DVD drive with the 360?

2. Is it a gaming machine? As a gaming machine its getting killed by the Wii but how many people bought it to be a Blu-ray player (the opposite of the previous statement). Is this why programers seem timid on committing to PS3 for new games.

3. Is it a computer? You can install Linux operating systems on it -with a sizeable HDD. But what will you use it primarily as?

I believe this is part of the PS3's problem - it can't win on more than one front - it has spread itself too thin. Sony should decide what it should be because no one is going to give up their computer for a PS3, no one has won the High Def war, and PS3 is getting killed in the console area because of inferior game support (compared to that of the Wii and Xbox 360 - Wii has lower cost games - Xbox and Wii both have more games). Sony its time to classify this this..... for lack of a better term - this mutt. Find a legitimate breed name for this costly piece of fine machinery and target it - you will do better. Its a shame that the PS2 still out sells the PS3!
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Old 12-06-2007   #2
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Default Re: Genus, Species and the Playstation 3

What it is called is the only true next gen gaming system.
It uses Blu-Ray discs for games because you can get more high definition audio & video content on a Blu-Ray disc than you can a CD or DVD.
It has a browser so you can go online to get content from the Playstation store.

You forgot it's also a media server.

All these are just a part of being a real next gen system, the Xbox 360 is just Xbox version 1.5, basically just a Xbox with HD & the Wii is just a repackaged game cube with motion control.

So it's a next gen gaming system with a bunch of extras.
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Old 12-06-2007   #3
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Default Re: Genus, Species and the Playstation 3

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Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post
What it is called is the only true next gen gaming system.
It uses Blu-Ray discs for games because you can get more high definition audio & video content on a Blu-Ray disc than you can a CD or DVD.
It has a browser so you can go online to get content from the Playstation store.

You forgot it's also a media server.

All these are just a part of being a real next gen system, the Xbox 360 is just Xbox version 1.5, basically just a Xbox with HD & the Wii is just a repackaged game cube with motion control.

So it's a next gen gaming system with a bunch of extras.
I finally figured you out... You're a PS3 fanatic.

Anyone who has an inkling of programming knowledge understands the PS3 is a giant paperweight in comparison to the 360. The SPUs in the PS3 look like potentially on paper they can create around 51M DPOs. In practice I've yet to hear of more than 25M being achieved. The 360 does around 33M. The fact remains it is far simpler to program for the 360 than the PS3 and so far all the PS3 has is potential... but that doesn't anwer:

GPUs... it's not even close. All that potential processing power (some believe that somebody at some point will get near those 51M DPOs the cell is capable of) and they pair it up with a GPU that isn't even built for HD anit-aliasing? That was genius. Have you seen reports of multiplatform games that compare FPS? PS3 games have less resolution than 360 and generally less FPS. The 360 GPU is far, far, far superior over the PS3. It's not close and anyone who says the PS3 is capable of better graphics is uneducated on the matter. Fill rates, anti-aliasing, pixel & vertex processing power... the 360 wins in a landslide.

The 360 is just amazing at rendering HD anti-aliased back buffers. For multiplatform games, the PS3 just can't do it. So the programmers are forced to "cheat." They run in non-hd resolutions and use low quality anti-aliasing techniques. The only other option (and one that is used often) is back buffer upscaling (taking the lower res game and making it high res). This leads to the worse frame rates and obvious anti-aliasing deficiencies that you see in side by side comparison screen shots (fair ones that is, I've seen online sites with obviously doctored screen shots).

Nothing Sony does will change the GPU flaw they went with. Anyone who says otherwise drank way too much of Ken's kool aid.

Don't even get me started on how the PS3 is becoming less and less technically superior with each new option either...

No SACD. No backwards compatibility with PS2... and the new 80GB one is only 50% compatible with PS2.

Meanwhile every new 360 being built now has HDMI 1.2, which is a big upgrade over the previously lacking units.

The only edge the PS3 has imho is as a Media Center. The 360 is a Media Extender and that imho was a poor idea on MS's part.
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Old 12-07-2007   #4
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Default Re: Genus, Species and the Playstation 3

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I finally figured you out... You're a PS3 fanatic.
And I figured you out, your not a HD-DVD fanboy your a Sony Hater.


Quote:
Anyone who has an inkling of programming knowledge understands the PS3 is a giant paperweight in comparison to the 360.
I guess by programing knowledge you mean too lazy to learn a new system so you try to make the other system look bad (can you say Valve?)

I do not have all the electronics background but I do know if you tried to run Folding@Home on a Xbox 360 it would melt while the PS3's processing power has set new records in gene research.
My PS3 has been running the folding@Home program 24/7 since it came out in March & hasn't even gotten hot, a 360 doing that would have died several times since then.

While I'm on the subject how about build quality?
I've heard of very few PS3 problems but even the big 360 fanboy sites are full of stories about "the Red Ring of Death".
That only cost Microsoft another Billion dollars on a console that has never made a profit!

Just comparing a game like Forza Motorsports to a free demo like Gran Turismo 5 Prologue shows the capabilities of the PS3, I mean a free demo blows away a complete game graphics wise, I can hardly wait for my copy of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue to get here from Hong Kong in just over a week, it should hold me over till the full Gran Turismo 5 arrives next year.

Just wait till the programmers start developing for the PS3 first (well, the lazy ones won't) then you'll see just how bad a port can be on the 360.
First they'll have to down rez the audio & video & they'll have to shorten the game for lack of space on a DVD & then they'll have to change the gameplay because there are no motion sensitive controllers on the 360 and last but not least having to rework the games for 360's without hard drives because MS has stated that hard drives will never be required on any 360 games since the cheaper versions don't come with a hard drive (which is something the developers do not like).
You'll see crappy ports then!

Quote:
Don't even get me started on how the PS3 is becoming less and less technically superior with each new option either...
Meanwhile every new 360 being built now has HDMI 1.2, which is a big upgrade over the previously lacking units.
Just more proof of your Sony hating.
Sony is giving options not making it "less technically superior ".
The PS3 is still expensive to build so they are expensive to buy, by putting fewer options on the cheaper versions more people can get in on the PS3.
All of the important stuff is still there including HDMI 1.3 & a hard drive.

Anyway how is that any different than the Xbox arcade version that is a stripped down version of the 360 that doesn't have a hard drive?
As for the HDMI ports that's just playing catch up since not all of them had them in the beginning like the PS3 did, oh and the PS3's HDMI ports are & always have been v1.3.

Quote:
Meanwhile every new 360 being built now has HDMI 1.2, which is a big upgrade over the previously lacking units
Not bad, maybe one day they'll catch up to the PS3 which has had HDMI 1.3 since day one!


I'm big into driving games & I can say that early games like Formula 1 Championship edition & Motorstorm have way better graphics & audio than any 360 release titles & the new games like GT5P & DiRT (which looks better on the PS3 than it does on the 360) are showing that the good programmers are starting to figure out how to use the PS3's power.
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Old 12-07-2007   #5
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Default Re: Genus, Species and the Playstation 3

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And I figured you out, your not a HD-DVD fanboy your a Sony Hater.
Hmmm... that is funny. To think of all the hard work I did designing for them. I sure showed them!

No I'm just not brainwashed or blind. You claim PS3 games look better, you're so brainwashed you see things that aren't there.

Not one professional in the industry will tell you the PS3 has better graphics capability that has any integrity or isn't paid by Sony. The PS3 can't handle HD Anti-Aliasing. Do you just refuse to understand that point? They use BACK BUFFER UPSCALING. The games are designed at lower resolutions and then upscaled!

Is it possible for the PS3 games to have better physics? Yes. This is where their games can become cooler, but so far nobody has taken advantage of this... yet. It won't be in graphics the RAM, etc. is all in the 360's favor.

I've seen a port from PS3 to 360 in beta stages and it looks great on the 360 dev kit. So I'm not drinking that kool aid. I can think for myself.

You keep pointing at the numbers showing how big and bad the PS3 is. Why not post graphical CAPABILITIES between the two?
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Old 12-07-2007   #6
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Default Re: Genus, Species and the Playstation 3

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Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
No I'm just not brainwashed or blind. You claim PS3 games look better, you're so brainwashed you see things that aren't there.
So your asking me if I'm going to believe you or my lying eyes??

Quote:
Is it possible for the PS3 games to have better physics? Yes. This is where their games can become cooler, but so far nobody has taken advantage of this... yet. It won't be in graphics the RAM, etc. is all in the 360's favor.
The PS3 is 1 year old, the 360 is 2 years old, there is a learning curve when using new tech, it's always easier to fall back on the old stuff but if you want to advance you have to learn the new stuff which is starting to happen & the results are coming soon.
As for graphics you will not convince me that Forza looks better than GT5P.



And those pics aren't even in HD here & they look great.

Last edited by TheMoose; 12-07-2007 at 02:26 PM..
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